There is, bhikkhus, a not-born, a not-brought-to-being, a not-made, a not-conditioned. If, bhikkhus, there were no not-born, not-brought-to-being, not-made, not-conditioned, no escape would be discerned from what is born, brought-to-being, made, conditioned. But since there is a not-born, a not-brought-to-being, a not-made, a not-conditioned, therefore an escape is discerned from what is born, brought-to-being, made, conditioned. (Sutta pitaka , khuddaka nikaya , udana 8:3)
6 Answers
That is Nibbana, and not god or Brahman or any kind of Ultimate Reality. It is that which is experienced by the mind, when it is completely free of all fetters and defilements.
I quote from this answer below. Please see that answer for details.
So, Nibbana is not a thought of the mind, not a concept of the mind, not a state of the mind, not a state of consciousness and also not a feeling. However, when the mind experiences this Nibbana, which is not conditioned, not compounded, not suffering, not impermanent, not arising, not ceasing and not changing, it experiences bliss. The mind can therefore experience Nibbana, but it cannot feel it or think about it.
Sukha or happiness for an unenlightened person is experienced when encountering pleasant feelings (from the six senses) or when encountering the cessation of painful feelings (from the six senses). But for an arahat, sukha or bliss (in this context) is experienced when encountering neutral feelings, no feelings and Nibbana.
answered May 25, 2020 at 15:06
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@user646989 Mind exists during and after Nibbana, but it is free from defilements. If you read this sutta, it says "Luminous is the mind. And it is defiled by incoming defilements." The mind is however completely calm and silenced in higher jhanas. Also, see this answer for examples of thoughts entering the Buddha's mind.– ruben2020 ♦Commented May 27, 2020 at 14:40
God, is not neccesary. Buddha didnt said, it exist, doesnt, both or neighther. Birth is the origination of dependant phenomenon. Its like Electric field is always present with magnetic disc around it. Magnetic disc can be called as dependent origination, as it attract the Iron. Iron can be term as 5 khandas and when one attain nibbana, it cease to that magnetic disc. Know for sure, that magnetic disc never ceases, it always accompanied by electric field. Magnetic field can be term as anatta. You are asking about electric field, the source of life. If you see above statements, then question of electric field is not neccessary. Real question likes in how to attain cessation!
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What's khandas ? Is there any similar concept of khanda in Hindu or Islam ? ,Is the electric field god ? Commented May 26, 2020 at 8:19
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15 Khanda mean complex of 5 elements with feeling, sensation, perception, counciousness to form being. In hinduism khanda is synonymous with Brahman. Veda stumbled into it as they term it as Supreme one, but an error. Although impermanent, they call it permanent. They cling to it. They not crossed to other shore, but remain tied to this end. Why? They didn't surrendered! To the eightfold path, a pool of coolness and purity. Electric field cannot be call by any name. It's not Worthy. It's not produce will to detachment. It's only called as place of cessation of all sufferings! Commented May 26, 2020 at 8:39
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what do you think about Islam then ? Your religion is very different from them Commented May 26, 2020 at 9:16
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I belong to no religion. Nor here any wish to change others. Buddhism is not religion, it's way of pure life lived here and now. There is history religion changes over time from one to another, replacing with one belief to another. I don't have any belief. I don't think only Buddhism teaches the truth, others not. Commented May 26, 2020 at 9:32
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can you reconcile both Islam and Buddhism ? Do you find similarity between them ? Commented May 26, 2020 at 9:33
There is no god, creator of all. Nibbana is the cessation of the manifested, cessation of perception of the manifested, and cessation of the memory of the manifested. Nothing remains of mind as you know it. Nibbana is unborn. It creates nothing. The question is, how does manifestation come into being?
The idea that the ''unborn'' can not create anything is nowhere to be found in the suttas
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Hi. Is the idea the ''unborn'' can create things to be found in the suttas? Since you appeared to assert you know 100% of the suttas, please provide a sutta that includes Nibbana as a causal agent (sankhara)? Thank you Commented May 2 at 2:08
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Please provide more details, otherwise this needs to be converted into a comment or deleted.– ruben2020 ♦Commented May 2 at 5:02
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@DhammaDhatu The statement was expressed as a negative. I see no easy way to prove that something doesn't exist in the suttas -- instead the burden of proof is on the other side, i.e. it would be for you to prove that the suttas say that the unborn doesn't create -- which you assert (without proof) in your answer.– ChrisW ♦Commented May 2 at 5:09
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The idea that the unborn is ineffective might seem obvious, but metaphysics can seem paradoxical -- e.g. there's, "The Tao when unnamed is the source of heaven and earth, named, the origin of the ten thousand things." Is it perhaps useful to see nibanna as consequential? For example was the Buddha motivated by nibanna, or anything like that?– ChrisW ♦Commented May 2 at 5:45
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2I'm not saying that the unborn can create or cannot create anything. I just pointing out that the buddha refused to answer this kind of questions. So to say the unborn cannot create anything is NOT the Buddhas teaching. Commented May 3 at 6:27
It is similar, Maimonides of the Hebrew faith also ended up saying that God could only be described through negation, and the Hindus say Brahman is 'neti neti' - 'not this, not that'.
However the difference between nibbana and God is that God is Ultimate Reality, which is where the term differes from nibbana.
If God is seen as a '1' to the '0' of our daily experience, then nibbana is the '0' to the '-1' of our daily experience. It is perhaps more melancholy, but it is less contrived, as no 'thing' needs to be pulled out of a hat.
answered May 25, 2020 at 16:05
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What do you mean by ultimate reality ? The atma in Hinduism is unborn too Commented May 26, 2020 at 8:28
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Just really the last paragraph. Actually, I would say not '0', but '[ ]' - an empty set for nibbana, if being pedantic. Atman however, is an attempt to build a '1' into things. That thing, existing independent of individual experience. nibbana does not exist, it does not not exist, it is not conditioned, by any thing. Commented May 27, 2020 at 6:03
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No. God you're talking about is a personification of nature. Also logics or Boolean logic or set theory doesn't have anything to do here. Misleading answer.– XPDCommented May 27, 2020 at 18:54
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Hello. This view of Maimonides (born 1138 CE) appears in contradiction to the Hebrew Bible. Maimonides lived in the Islamic world and possibly his view of god was an attempt at alignment with the Islamic conception of Allah. Commented May 2 at 2:10
Nibbana is not god.
The Old Testament of the Bible says: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters." This god is not the non-born.
For Christians, god has a son called Jesus. Therefore this god is not the non-born.
For Muslims, they claim in 112.3 "He begets not, nor is He begotten". Yet in 40:61, for example, they also claim: "It is Allah who made for you the night that you may rest therein and the day giving sight. Indeed, Allah is full of bounty to the people, but most of the people are not grateful".
Nibbana is not-born. Nor does Nibbana give birth. Nibbana does not create the earth, the sky, the animals; Nibbana does not send its only begotten son into the world; Nibbana does not create pomegranates, camels & cool oases in the Arabian desert with cool springs of water.
AN 10.58 says "nibbānapariyosānā sabbe dhammā". The famous Western translators (Sujato; Thanissaro; Bodhi) translate this as "all things have Nibbana as their final end". Piya Tan also comments supportively on this. This shows Nibbana is related to the ending of things rather than to the creation of things. The same AN 10.58 says (per the Western translators) all things are produced by application of mind; contact is their origin. In summary, AN 10.58 (per the Western translators) says all things are created by attention and all things end in Nibbana. Therefore, Nibbana does not create things. Nibbana is only has the quality of destruction.