What to do about someone who cannot be reasoned with?

Question

What should you do about someone who cannot be reasoned with about their behaviour. I say "this is hurting me, please talk with me about it" but they keep doing the same amoral behaviour. It isn't an evil behaviour, but it is destructive and scary. What is skillful and compassionate, in this context, for the laity? There's nothing I can do about how they behave, and I cannot escape them, so do I just go with it, allow myself to be mistreated? Does anything in the Buddhist canon talk about advice for destructive friends, e.g. what sort of friends to keep and what to do if a friend slips up, etc.?

Answer 1

The sutta which I remember as "the sutta of the six directions" has a lot of advice about what sort of friends to keep:

• Sigalovada Sutta (DN 31)

See also this topic about what sort of person to marry:

• Any authentic sutta from any tradition that gives guidance on what kind of partner to choose?

I don't know about how to correct a lay friend:

• Possibly by Right Speech
• Possibly by trying one thing, trying another, and then? Kesi Sutta (AN 4.111)

The Rhinoceros sutta suggests it's better to have no friend, than a bad friend:

• Khaggavisana Sutta (Sn 1.3)

Though the path it suggests is unconventional (i.e. "become a monk") it seems to me that there's some underlying ethos like, "don't be foolish" and, "behave in a way that is 'praised by the wise'". And "get expert advice", including about morality and know-how (behavioural techniques).

I can only guess what "destructive" behaviour means but in a lay context, perhaps you might seek advice from a medical doctors, addiction counselors and/or former addicts, family/relationship counsellors, and lawyers.

Given my experience I guess I can't advise you, about whether and when to keep them as a friend, leave, return, forbid, offer, accept, etc.

I would advise that maybe you might or ought to avoid enabling or supporting misbehaviour -- I don't know whether this is a good theory, nor even a well-framed or insightful description of the phenomenon, but if it's a true or useful description it might be an example of misbehaviour you should avoid:

In psychology, codependency is a theory that attempts to explain imbalanced relationships where one person enables another person's self-destructive behavior such as addiction, poor mental health, immaturity, irresponsibility, or under-achievement.

Even if you keep the relationship, I'd suggest that at a minimum you also need "association with the wise" who can be role model for you:

• Upaddha Sutta (SN 45.2)

  As AN 8.54 points out, this means not only associating with good people, but also learning from them and emulating their good qualities.

I might be remiss if I didn't mention "love", the advice above about "good and bad friends" is categorical and (perhaps rightly) divisive -- but it's also good to understand the doctrine of the "brahmaviharas":

These four attitudes are said to be excellent or sublime because they are the right or ideal way of conduct towards living beings (sattesu samma patipatti). They provide, in fact, the answer to all situations arising from social contact. ...

The Brahma-viharas are incompatible with a hating state of mind ...

"Non-hatred" maybe doesn't mean saying "sure, whatever you want" so much that it leads to immorality. Perhaps this is a balancing act which a good parent (perhaps a good friend) must or will learn, being benevolent towards their sometimes-immature children.

It might also be worth understanding doctrine about "conceit":

• I think it's major cause of conflict, according to Buddhism: Māna
• This answer suggests that a partially-enlightened person can see more accurately ("true")

The latter may be related to The Arising of the Dhamma Eye -- which is related to morality:

one who has entered the orderliness of rightness, entered the plane of people of integrity, transcended the plane of the run-of-the-mill

Answer 2

Well, first, allow me to note that you don't have to adopt an attitude of surrender. You can choose to alter this situation; you can choose to remove yourself from it. Part of the Buddhist notion of liberation is the idea that we are only caught in situations because of our own ignorance of the true nature of that situation, and once we see the situation for what it is, it ceases to have power to control us.

I obviously don't know anything about the situation here, but people who act "destructive and scary" are trying to obtain something from others that they don't know how to achieve by other more genial means. That 'something' could be any of many things: Money or wealth, respect or admiration, love or affection, power or dominance, safety or loyalty… Their actions are like that of a young child throwing a tantrum because it was denied a treat or a toy or a hug. There is a mix of attitudes there, like desire, entitlement, self-pity, a sense of unworthiness, etc. So the person cycles in anger: anger that they haven't got what they want; anger that they want what they don't really feel they deserve; anger that they don't feel they deserve what they think they are entitled to; anger that the world doesn't recognize their entitlement… it's a nasty mental knot.

Trying to reason with such a person (or such a child) is an ineffective approach, because from the perspective of a tantrum reasoning people seem fearful, conciliatory, weak, and thus likely to surrender whatever is wanted. Responding with anger is also ineffective, because your external anger will merely crystalize their internal knot of attitudes as justified and real. The only effective approach is assertive non-response. Calmly and quietly get up and leave the room, or the house, or the neighborhood; calmly and quietly close your eyes and meditate, taking whatever they say or do as mere distractions of noise and movement; if necessary, calmly and quietly call the police. Don't reason, don't explain, don't justify, just do what you need to do to find your own peace, the way you'd calmly step into a house to get away from a thunderstorm. Leave the 'destructive and scary' energy feed on itself until its fuel is exhausted, and then (if you like) you can come back and use reason.

This kind of behavior won't change until the person doing it decides to look at it squarely. But such a person won't look at their behavior until the behavior fails to give them the things they want. If you don't do anything they can construe as a reward, they will eventually be forced to (1) seek out new, better methods to get what they want from you, or (2) seek out new people they can traumatize into obedience. Either way you'll be free of it.

Answer 3

I think you should put them on a horse and send them away. But you will think, "that was an experience of mine, i will cherish it". Regardless, you can't be a permanent entity like you think or reason with. Still the gods should be kind and generous and protect us like space that was earth.