0

I read the following on the internet:

Yes. The Buddha repeatedly states his awareness to be separate from the consciousness aggregate.

Lord, freed (nissaṭo), dissociated (visaṁyutto) & released (vippamutto) from how many things does the Tathāgata dwell with unrestricted (vimariyādīkatena) awareness (cetasā)?

Freed, dissociated & released from ten things, Vāhuna, the Tathāgata dwells with unrestricted awareness. Which ten? Freed, dissociated, & released from form, the Tathāgata dwells with unrestricted awareness. Freed, dissociated, & released from feeling… Freed, dissociated, & released from perception… Freed, dissociated, & released from fabrications… Freed, dissociated, & released from consciousness… Freed, dissociated, & released from birth… Freed, dissociated, & released from aging… Freed, dissociated, & released from death… Freed, dissociated, & released from stress… Freed, dissociated, & released from defilement, the Tathāgata dwells with unrestricted awareness.

Just as a red, blue, or white lotus born in the water and growing in the water, rises up above the water and stands with no water adhering to it, in the same way the Tathāgata — freed, dissociated, & released from these ten things—dwells with unrestricted awareness.

AN 10.81 Thanissaro translation

Does a Buddha really have an "awareness" separate from the five aggregates?

Are there any suttas that explicitly say a Buddha is with or without the five aggregates?

Are there any suttas offering insight into the meanings of the words 'nissaṭo', 'visaṁyutto'. 'vippamutto' and 'vimariyādīkatena'?

Improve this question
1
  • "Does a Buddha really have an "awareness" separate from the five aggregates?" Yes the quote in your question makes plain that he dwells with an awareness dissociated from the five aggregates. This is different from saying that he is that awareness.
    – Sāvakohamasmi
    Commented Jun 10 at 4:13

2 Answers 2

Reset to default
2

"Are there any suttas that explicitly say a Buddha is with or without the five aggregates?"

"What do you think: Do you regard the Tathagata as form-feeling-perception-fabrications-consciousness?"
"No, my friend."
"Do you regard the Tathagata as that which is without form, without feeling, without perception, without fabrications, without consciousness?"
"No, my friend."
"And so, my friend Yamaka — when you can't pin down the Tathagata as a truth or reality even in the present life — is it proper for you to declare, 'As I understand the Teaching explained by the Blessed One, a monk with no more effluents, on the break-up of the body, is annihilated, perishes, & does not exist after death'?"
"Previously, my friend Sariputta, I did foolishly hold that evil supposition. But now, having heard your explanation of the Dhamma, I have abandoned that evil supposition, and have broken through to the Dhamma." -SN 22.85

Improve this answer
4
  • Thank you Dan for this insightful sutta excerpt, particularly: ""Do you regard the Tathagata as that which is without form, without feeling, without perception, without fabrications, without consciousness?" "No, my friend." Does SN 22.85 say how the ending of the life of an Arahant is regarded?
    – Dhamma Dhatu
    Commented Jun 9 at 11:01
  • As for the first & third sentence, to me, this appears to say the notion of "The Tathagata" is not explicitly any of the aggregates (even though an Tathagata is not without aggregates).
    – Dhamma Dhatu
    Commented Jun 9 at 11:04
  • Yes, it shouldn't be said that he is consciousness without surface, yet he himself says that he dwells with an awareness that is totally disconnected from - i.e. doesn't land on - all five aggregates.
    – Sāvakohamasmi
    Commented Jun 10 at 4:16
  • It seems to deflect from giving a positive answer, "this is this", and instead refers back to negating identification with the aggregates. "...after death?" "Thus asked, I would answer, 'Form is inconstant... Feeling... Perception... Fabrications... Consciousness is inconstant. That which is inconstant is stressful. That which is stressful has ceased and gone to its end." The way I've seen it compared to in others is like a fire going out.
    – Dan
    Commented Jun 10 at 11:15
2

nissaṭa pp. of nis + sarati

nissaraṇa Sk. niḥsaraṇa, to nis + sarati

The primary meaning of nissaṭa in AN 10.81 is explained in SN 22.46. Its Buddha-Dhamma 101:

Removing and giving up desire (chanda) and greed (rāga) for form.. feeeling... perception... mental formations... consciousness: this is its escape (nissaraṇaṁ).

SN 22.46

As was explained in the answer quoting SN 22.85, a Buddha is not literally free from or without five aggregates. SN 22.85 describes the ending of the life of an Arahant as:

If, friend Yamaka, they were to ask you: ‘Friend Yamaka, when a bhikkhu is an arahant, one whose taints are destroyed, what happens to him with the breakup of the body, after death?’—being asked thus, what would you answer?

If they were to ask me this, friend, I would answer thus: ‘Friends, form is impermanent; what is impermanent is unsatisfactory; what is unsatisfactory has ceased and passed away. Feeling … Perception … Volitional formations … Consciousness is impermanent; what is impermanent is unsatisfactory ; what is unsatisfactory has ceased and passed away.’ Being asked thus, friend, I would answer in such a way.

SN 22.85

Also, AN 10.81 uses the phrase: "vimariyādīkatena cetasā viharatī: his mind free of limits abides". "Cetasā/citta" is the standard Pali word used in relation to liberation of mind, such as in:

  • MN 10

They know freed mind as ‘freed mind,’

Vimuttaṁ vā cittaṁ ‘vimuttaṁ cittan’ti pajānāti.

  • MN 29; MN 30

Rather, the goal, heartwood, and final end of the spiritual life is the unshakable freedom of heart.”

Yā ca kho ayaṁ, brāhmaṇa, akuppā cetovimutti — etadatthamidaṁ, brāhmaṇa, brahmacariyaṁ, etaṁ sāraṁ etaṁ pariyosānan”ti.

  • MN 43

The limitless release of the heart, and the release of the heart through nothingness, and the release of the heart through emptiness, and the signless release of the heart: do these things differ in both meaning and phrasing? Or do they mean the same thing, and differ only in the phrasing?”

“Yā cāyaṁ, āvuso, appamāṇā cetovimutti, yā ca ākiñcaññā cetovimutti, yā ca suññatā cetovimutti, yā ca animittā cetovimutti—ime dhammā nānātthā ceva nānābyañjanā ca udāhu ekatthā byañjanameva nānan”ti?

The 'citta' is not something independent of the five aggregates. If the citta was independent of the five aggregates, then in omitting 'citta' from SN 22.59 Anatta-Lakkhana Sutta, the Buddha would have indirectly declared the 'citta' to be 'self'.

Fortunately, the Pali suttas tell us the citta is conditioned from nama-rupa, namely:

The mind originates from name and form.

Nāmarūpasamudayā cittassa samudayo;

When name and form cease, the mind ends.

nāmarūpanirodhā cittassa atthaṅgamo.

SN 47.42

'Nama-rupa' is simply the aggregates:

And what, bhikkhus, is name-and-form? Feeling, perception, volition, contact, attention: this is called name. The four great elements and the form derived from the four great elements: this is called form. Thus this name and this form are together called name-and-form.

SN 12.2

To avoid doubt, in suttas directly about consciousness (such as SN 22.53), it is said consciousness (vinnana) is liberated (rather than use the word 'citta'). For example:

‘Apart from form, feeling, perception and choices, I will describe the coming and going of consciousness, its passing away and reappearing, its growth, increase, and maturity.’ That is not possible.

‘ahamaññatra rūpā aññatra vedanāya aññatra saññāya aññatra saṅkhārehi viññāṇassa āgatiṁ vā gatiṁ vā cutiṁ vā upapattiṁ vā vuddhiṁ vā virūḷhiṁ vā vepullaṁ vā paññāpessāmī’ti, netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjati.

If a mendicant has given up greed for the form element,

Rūpadhātuyā ce, bhikkhave, bhikkhuno rāgo pahīno hoti.

the support is cut off, and there is no foundation for [lit: the establishment/attachment of] consciousness.

Rāgassa pahānā vocchijjatārammaṇaṁ patiṭṭhā viññāṇassa na hoti.

If a mendicant has given up greed for the feeling element …

Vedanādhātuyā ce, bhikkhave …

perception element …

saññādhātuyā ce, bhikkhave …

choices element …

saṅkhāradhātuyā ce, bhikkhave …

consciousness element,

viññāṇadhātuyā ce, bhikkhave, bhikkhuno rāgo pahīno hoti.

the support is cut off, and there is no foundation for consciousness.

Rāgassa pahānā vocchijjatārammaṇaṁ patiṭṭhā viññāṇassa na hoti.

Since that consciousness does not become established and does not grow, with no power to regenerate, it is freed.

Tadappatiṭṭhitaṁ viññāṇaṁ avirūḷhaṁ anabhisaṅkhacca vimuttaṁ.

Being free, it’s stable. Being stable, it’s content. Being content, they’re not anxious. Not being anxious, they personally become extinguished.

Vimuttattā ṭhitaṁ. Ṭhitattā santusitaṁ. Santusitattā na paritassati. Aparitassaṁ paccattaññeva parinibbāyati.

They understand: ‘Birth is ended, the spiritual journey has been completed, what had to be done has been done, there is no return to any state of existence.’”

‘Khīṇā jāti, vusitaṁ brahmacariyaṁ, kataṁ karaṇīyaṁ, nāparaṁ itthattāyā’ti pajānātī”ti.

SN 22.53

In conclusion, liberation of mind is liberation from greed, hated & delusion. Liberation of mind is 'liberation of mind' rather than 'liberation from mind'. Therefore, a Buddha does not have an "awareness" separate from the five aggregates. "Citta/cetasa" is not separate from the aggregates; just as "mano" ("intellect") is not separate from the aggregates. SN 12.61 says:

But that which is called ‘heart’ and also ‘intellect’ and also ‘consciousness’ arises as one thing and ceases as another all day and all night.

Yañca kho etaṁ, bhikkhave, vuccati cittaṁ itipi, mano itipi, viññāṇaṁ itipi, taṁ rattiyā ca divasassa ca aññadeva uppajjati aññaṁ nirujjhati.

SN 12.61

Improve this answer
1
  • This ignores that the awareness is described as being freed from death. It also ignores the fact that independence is freedom. Without independence there's no freedom. The citta is not inherently independent from the aggregates but this and many other suttas - the Anattalakkhaṇasutta included - show that it can be and that its independence is the goal of the practice.
    – Sāvakohamasmi
    Commented Jul 11 at 13:57

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .