From a book called Pruning the Bodhi Tree the author writes in the Suttanipata (oldest Pali discourses?) the following is replied by Sakyamuni:

Without ordinary perception (conception), without mistaken perception, not without perception, and not with the extinction of perception - one who practices in this way will extinguish form. A mistaken consciousness of the world arises from conception.

I was hoping to find it, but wasn't found. Any help?

1 Answer 1


Without normal perception or distorted perception;

Na saññasaññī na visaññasaññī,

not lacking perception, nor perceiving what has disappeared.

Nopi asaññī na vibhūtasaññī;

Form disappears for one proceeding thus;

Evaṁ sametassa vibhoti rūpaṁ,

for judgements due to proliferation spring from perception.

Saññānidānā hi papañcasaṅkhā

Snp 4.11

Visaññī is used of one whose perception is distorted by grief (Thig 6.2:1.2), by alcohol (Bu Pc 51:1.40), or by the four “distortions of perception” (AN 4.49:3.5). Saññasaññī is the opposite.

This verse answers the question of how one is to practice so that form disappears. It describes the process that leads from the fourth jhana to the formless states.

In MN 18, we have the sequence perception, thought, proliferation, then papañcasaññāsaṅkhā. This suggests that papañca causes saṅkhā, as per Bodhi.

Sujato's notes

  • ...not what has disappeared, that's the clinging of perception, hmm, do i do that?
    – blue_ego
    Commented Jun 5 at 0:19

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