1. What is atthakalap?
  2. So famously known as soul-> atta in Buddha's teachings .. how can one derive soul from atthakalap?
  3. And what's after liberated state from atthakalap is achieved?
  4. Is liberated mind impermanent too, if so then how or why not if not?

I was wondering how this atthakalap works.

Thanks to the anger-looking collection of few points in this question, now I can imagine (via analysis) soul and atthakalap, and this is how I understand (or "this knowledge came like this"):

Like the mind is cheated by itself via everything in form of grasping -- from point 5 from above link...

For a long time I have been cheated, tricked and hoodwinked by my citta. For when grasping, I have been grasping onto form, for when grasping, I have been grasping onto feelings, , for when grasping, I have been grasping onto perceptions, for when grasping, I have been grasping onto experiences, for when grasping, I have been grasping onto consciousness.

...and atthakalap is said to have 4 members with 4 properties and all are like beads tied to a "rope in form of mind".

This mind is not the actual rope rather it tries to be the one due to ignorance(here comes the ignorance part where it can be judged clearly) and when mind stops being a rope here, these beads do not break and shatter rather the impermanent beads remain as it is but mind is freed from that. In that way, everything is impermanent... is observed. In that way, mind is liberated and is said to achieve permanence(in terms of non grasping forever, non clinging forever..).

  1. But there is one more concern here, when mind is freed what happens to mind then, after?

  2. What's the way to check mind's impermanence, is it's impermanence a way to express change within itself, if so wt's that change?..
    :::::: or is there no such thing as mind, it's just the process within body, process of karma(action) which has started to cease after achieving that state!!

  3. What's the difference b/w that state and Brahma, if any?

(Note:- if reader is not feeling good then kind request to either edit it or break it into multiple sub topics with linked questions, mentioning links in them with seq. Number).

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    @SUVIMUTTACITTASSA , welcome to express your doctrine knowledge in this. I m just a newbie learner.
    – Wonderer
    Commented Feb 21, 2023 at 11:52
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    You asked another questions about "attha kalap" here -- World of being, inside vs outside. Where do you find that word in the doctrine, in the canon? Is it from the Abhidhamma?
    – ChrisW
    Commented Feb 21, 2023 at 12:18
  • Even the scientists could know Atthakalap which is called as atom, molecule, mass, Physical stimulus, etc., (even Atthakalap is smaller than that but it's same as " mole of elements") then why the Buddhist, who claim themselves as the genius one (panna), can not even know Atthakalap? It's simple.
    – Bonn
    Commented Feb 21, 2023 at 22:38
  • world of .. is a different query than this one. Attha kalap can be understood from here I heard this word long time back in Vipassana course. This query is more about soul, eternal soul derivation from attha-kalap, is in itself an indirect answer to suvimuttacittassa's query(can be rephrased as, "why mind is used instead of soul, eternal soul in Buddhism?") & has extended questions ahead of them.
    – Wonderer
    Commented Feb 22, 2023 at 2:27
  • Analysis is :- Sages who were able to reach a state to see atthakalap, could do anything and treated their momentary ability to be soul or eternal soul(within 62 different traditions about 2.6k years back).
    – Wonderer
    Commented Feb 22, 2023 at 2:30

1 Answer 1


Such questions are not easy to answer and likely to attract contradictions, unnecessary mocking, pointing fingers over each other etc.

One should go forth, even if slowly. Buddhas's quote, "Come and see".

If it's atthakalap, kalap, mental imagination with limitation of sensation giving mixed interpretation of correct & incorrect result(mixture of various dhyan ayatan leading to sensation of void being ill-recognised as shunya everywhere within and various simultaneous dhamma sensing being ill-recognised(imagined, forcefully integrated with scientific theories etc.) as those of various properties of any point within body.. 8, 4 with 4 or whatever having sensational limits to imagine the spontaneity of whatsoever) or something else.

While going forth, shouldn't waste activities & triggers on disturbing communications. Should Stop torturing self.

Go as if, "you are your own son, father, mother, sibling, friend, enemy, peer, disturber, peace giver".

While going forth, one mustn't let the minor group(defilements) distract self, major group would be guiding.

Should test self, not to tear apart but to keep check on unfathomable constantly increasing viriya.

Better than anyone, one should know who all are waiting for them, have been investing in them, rejoice with their face & smile. So should walk their path accordingly.

Final advice -
Should clear all disturbing communication mediums, shouldn't be stranger to self and must stop being a part of communities having minored people fighting with each other.

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    @Max this answer is also fine. I m also not looking for answers from separate chained lineages having integrated science theories as per their own belief system and it has also indicated how those belief systems might have generated and integrated science theories within them.
    – Wonderer
    Commented Mar 1, 2023 at 16:13

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