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Buddha talks of becoming have a cause, is dependent on something other. Like Lamp's flame and light, shadow and real object, The sun and it's aura, object and mirage. The dependent origination generates the false 'I' which is nothing but the becoming.

Then can one conclude the cessation of becoming is also carried out by reversal of dependent origination I.e Dependent Cessation? I think that's the way!

Shadow can be ceased only when the real object is perceived, if not the shadow thinks it as real, even though it's unreal or non existing thing! Previously perceived snake was actually the rope, when the wisdom dawns upon. This shadow is false 'I', the illusion, the non-existant thing. But only when one sees it with eyes of wisdom! Can we say that?

Some quotes of Saints have this testimony in common,

√ Cure for Pain is in Pain!_ Rumi

√ Samudayadhamma(origination) = nirodhadhamma(cessation)_ Buddha

I believe the becoming and cessation are two opposite sides of the same coin!

What do others have to say about this? Please don't bring here quotes of scriptures. Do we have here the seekers which can see with eyes of wisdom? I am asking them! Others please don't bother!

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    "Please don't bring here quotes of scriptures" is not allowed here unfortunately, because we must ensure that all questions and answers stay on-topic. So, users are in fact strongly encouraged to support their answers with citations if possible. So, you can tell users that they don't have to cite scriptures, but you cannot tell them that they cannot cite scriptures.
    – ruben2020
    Oct 7 '21 at 15:52
  • When you figure out how to reverse old age, lemme know! We can go into business together. But seriously, look at the 12 steps of dependent arising and ask yourself how any of them could be reversed.
    – user21578
    Oct 7 '21 at 19:46
  • Old age can't be reversed. The 'one who sees' for him death, old age, birth are true delusions. That which doesn't come into being, how could birth and death apply to it? Only it's due to ignorance he caught in this diad. Oct 9 '21 at 5:58
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We should be careful with this line of reasoning (as with all lines of reasoning). One doesn't eliminate a shadow by moving the light; moving the light casts a shadow in a different direction. 'Dependent cessation' sounds like dependent origination in a destructive mode. Just as the presence of a thing can be 'caused', the absence of it can be 'caused' as well. "I am not that" is merely that opposite side of the coin from "I am that"; both can be identifications.

To eliminate the shadow of identification, one must become transparent. Something to meditate on...

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  • Sir, your statements conclude total annihilation, not this nor that. Nirvana they say is blowing out, now when the fuel is over, flames goes out. But, when the same fuel is over, who is the one who knows that the flame is not there anymore? Every Saints have testimony in common in the end, like Jesus(Lo! I am He), Buddha(tathgata), upanishad(thou art that)). Oct 9 '21 at 4:53
  • The supreme Soul is such that He is spoken about without actually speaking, about whom knowing nothing is actually same as knowing Him, who occurs without any happening. There, the even the aspect of "I am that" vanishes, the speaker becomes the spoken and view disappears along with the viewer. Can anybody say that something has survived behind? Oct 9 '21 at 5:15
  • @sandeeptelang: Transparent does not mean absent (or annihilated); a glass hammer can still drive a nail. All that’s lost is the mirror that reflects how we see ourselves back at the world. But this talk of a ‘supreme soul’ is far more in line with Vedanta than Buddhism proper. That doesn’t make it wrong; it merely makes the discussion much more convoluted. I like Vedanta.; I like Buddhism; I like convoluted discussions. But that’s as far as I’m willing to go. Oct 9 '21 at 5:33
  • Majority of them doesn't recognise what the bodhi tree and the root means. Buddha attained enlightenment under the tree is not the fool think as Fig tree, but the tree of Samsara(worldly existence). If one found the root of tree, he will be awaken and the tree of samsara vanishes as mere dream. That's the real message. He himself is the root, leaves, branches and twigs. Universe shines at his reflection. Thou art that. Oct 9 '21 at 9:00
  • In case if you know the real Bodhi tree the link is down below. dj6qo.de/dnye/dnye15.htm Oct 9 '21 at 9:04
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There is in fact, a forward version and a reverse version of dependent origination. Rather than calling it the two sides of the same coin, they are more like heads and tails - two different sides of the same coin (of samsara).

This is the forward version which starts with ignorance (avijja) and ends with suffering (dukkha):

“Thus, bhikkhus, with ignorance as proximate cause, volitional formations come to be; with volitional formations as proximate cause, consciousness; with consciousness as proximate cause, name-and-form; with name-and-form as proximate cause, the six sense bases; with the six sense bases as proximate cause, contact; with contact as proximate cause, feeling; with feeling as proximate cause, craving; with craving as proximate cause, clinging; with clinging as proximate cause, existence; with existence as proximate cause, birth; with birth as proximate cause, suffering;
SN 12.23

And it continues with the reverse version which starts with suffering (dukkha) and ends with the knowledge of destruction (of ignorance):

with suffering as proximate cause, faith; with faith as proximate cause, gladness; with gladness as proximate cause, rapture; with rapture as proximate cause, tranquillity; with tranquillity as proximate cause, happiness; with happiness as proximate cause, concentration; with concentration as proximate cause, the knowledge and vision of things as they really are; with the knowledge and vision of things as they really are as proximate cause, revulsion; with revulsion as proximate cause, dispassion; with dispassion as proximate cause, liberation; with liberation as proximate cause, the knowledge of destruction.
SN 12.23

OP wrote:

Shadow can be ceased only when the real object is perceived, if not the shadow thinks it as real, even though it's unreal or non existing thing! Previously perceived snake was actually the rope, when the wisdom dawns upon. This shadow is false 'I', the illusion, the non-existant thing. But only when one sees it with eyes of wisdom! Can we say that?

This sounds like the language of Advaita Vedanta of Hinduism, and not Buddhism.

There is no true "I" that's discovered when the false "I" is removed, in Buddhism.

Buddhism teaches "sabbe dhamma anatta" (Dhp 279) - all phenomena is not self. Also please see Vina Sutta and Sunna Sutta. This means absolutely ALL phenomena, including Nibbana, is not self.

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  • Yes sir, i am not saying the false 'i' when ceased you land on to real 'i'. What am I saying when the individuality is just a mirage and when wisdom dawn on him, he knows 'I am that! 'That' is not real 'individual self' but the 'soul of the universe'!. It is never ever comes into becoming, then one realises equal attitude and compassion towards every living beings. Oct 9 '21 at 4:41
  • Saint Kabir says, 'If I call it one it's a lie and if I say Two it's a slander. The union is like husband and wife!'. Eightfold path is living life of union with the Master. 'samma' doesn't mean 'right' as they translated it in english. Samma means 'in union'. Oct 9 '21 at 5:40

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