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After right concentration, how does right view change?

Do you become completely convinced by right view, or was that already the case? Is right view in some other sense more pervasive? Or is it just as it was, and all that's changed is you have a deeper insight (and if so in what way?)?

I've tagged this Theravada, but only because its path is easier to break down into right view etc., so welcome an answer from any tradition.

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Right view is a precursor to any attainment based on right views.

In example if a person held the view that sensuality is a worthwhile pursuit then he wouldn't be able to still the perception of sensuality. He would be training thus 'this should be, this should be for me and it is proper'.

Therefore you can't have right concentration without the corresponding right views. In order for path to be born one develops right views and eventually when there is an opening one attains the 8-fold path as a meditative attainment stilling the conditioned on account of dispassion, mind leaps to the Deathless element for release & a destruction of taints.

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  • yeah well I knew all that, and you didn't answer the question. no harm in it, however
    – user21635
    Aug 8 at 12:10
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    My point was that nothing changes as to one's views, one simply has an experience of entering into & emerging from cessation of perception & feeling. Having emerged from the attainment one's taints are more or less removed and one then has a memory of the sorrowless state, rather than a mere conceptual understanding of the possibility of such a reality and mind is then inclined to it.
    – user8527
    Aug 8 at 12:53
  • yeah that works for me: non-conceptual knowing or knowledge. thanks!
    – user21635
    Aug 8 at 12:57
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    Another thing changing is that one gains verified confidence and no longer takes it on faith that the training culminates in the Deathless, one no longer proclaims it based on faith or conviction. Technically it's not something one believes beyond the point of realizing that truth with one's body.
    – user8527
    Aug 8 at 13:07
  • sure. it depends on how you spin 'faith' see e.g. Korean buddhism. and I disagree that after right concentration you have no beliefs (even-though I like the idea of the omniscience of nothing at all). but I see were you're coming from
    – user21635
    Aug 8 at 13:08
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I'm just going to answer from my own limited and potentially fictional etc. experience. Your views do not change, but - in the Mahayana at least - you have "no view" (as Nagarjuna famously espoused).

So, less dogmatic, more capable of revision, and yet never revised.

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Typically one leaves wrong view, then enters right view with taints or effluents, then on to generating the noble path, then to the noble right view and then to the rest of the noble eightfold path. Please the MN 117 below.

Another good sutta which shows the transition from right view with taints or effluents, to the generation of the noble path is AN 5.57.

“Therein, bhikkhus, right view comes first. And how does right view come first? One understands wrong view as wrong view and right view as right view: this is one’s right view.

“And what, bhikkhus, is wrong view? ‘There is nothing given, nothing offered, nothing sacrificed; no fruit or result of good and bad actions; no this world, no other world; no mother, no father; no beings who are reborn spontaneously; no good and virtuous recluses and brahmins in the world who have realised for themselves by direct knowledge and declare this world and the other world.’ This is wrong view.

“And what, bhikkhus, is right view? Right view, I say, is twofold: there is right view that is affected by taints, partaking of merit, ripening in the acquisitions; and there is right view that is noble, taintless, supramundane, a factor of the path.

“And what, bhikkhus, is right view that is affected by the taints, partaking of merit, ripening in the acquisitions? ‘There is what is given and what is offered and what is sacrificed; there is fruit and result of good and bad actions; there is this world and the other world; there is mother and father; there are beings who are reborn spontaneously; there are in the world good and virtuous recluses and brahmins who have realised for themselves by direct knowledge and declare this world and the other world.’ This is right view affected by taints, partaking of merit, ripening in the acquisitions.

“And what, bhikkhus, is right view that is noble, taintless, supramundane, a factor of the path? The wisdom, the faculty of wisdom, the power of wisdom, the investigation-of-states enlightenment factor, the path factor of right view in one whose mind is noble, whose mind is taintless, who possesses the noble path and is developing the noble path: this is right view that is noble, taintless, supramundane, a factor of the path.

“One makes an effort to abandon wrong view and to enter upon right view: this is one’s right effort. Mindfully one abandons wrong view, mindfully one enters upon and abides in right view: this is one’s right mindfulness. Thus these three states run and circle around right view, that is, right view, right effort, and right mindfulness.
MN 117

“And for the sake of what benefit should a woman or a man, a householder or one gone forth, often reflect thus: ‘I am the owner of my kamma, the heir of my kamma; I have kamma as my origin, kamma as my relative, kamma as my resort; I will be the heir of whatever kamma, good or bad, that I do’? People engage in misconduct by body, speech, and mind. But when one often reflects upon this theme, such misconduct is either completely abandoned or diminished. It is for the sake of this benefit that a woman or a man, a householder or one gone forth, should often reflect thus: ‘I am the owner of my kamma, the heir of my kamma; I have kamma as my origin, kamma as my relative, kamma as my resort; I will be the heir of whatever kamma, good or bad, that I do.’

“This noble disciple reflects thus: ‘I am not the only one who is the owner of one’s kamma, the heir of one’s kamma; who has kamma as one’s origin, kamma as one’s relative, kamma as one’s resort; who will be the heir of whatever kamma, good or bad, that one does. All beings that come and go, that pass away and undergo rebirth, are owners of their kamma, heirs of their kamma; all have kamma as their origin, kamma as their relative, kamma as their resort; all will be heirs of whatever kamma, good or bad, that they do.’ As he often reflects on this theme, the path is generated. He pursues this path, develops it, and cultivates it. As he does so, the fetters are entirely abandoned and the underlying tendencies are uprooted.
AN 5.57

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There's a snowball effect, exponential growth, like compound interest. The eightfold noble path is a causal sequence, and #8 (right samadhi) loops back to #1 (right view). So when your samadhi improves in quality, immediately you're right view is going to see a little more clearly, and increase the potential to understand a little more deeply. So every moment, it's a snowball getting bigger and stronger. It's an ongoing process, improving or declining depending on your focus, there's no set formula for when a deep insight is going to kick in.

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