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Many ancient pali literature proposed the end or nirvana as 'tathagata got released'. What does it mean? Do tathagata is bound? Or Do we bound by ignorance and free with right knowledge(Samma Ditthi)?

Samma Ditthi at times coincides with Thou are that, upanishadic dictiom. Five aggregates are mere empty, like mirage of real caste on matter. But, when one gives up that which is not his, he lands onto mirage. And from that mirage he see Truth or who have samma ditthi.

Please any one could guide me in this regard!

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One is bound with the bondage of craving, and the arahant has become released from this bondage, and become unbound.

From Iti 58:

This was said by the Blessed One, said by the Arahant, so I have heard: "There are these three cravings. Which three? Craving for sensuality, craving for becoming, craving for non-becoming. These are the three cravings."

Bound with the bondage of craving,
their minds smitten
with becoming & non-,
they are bound with the bondage of Mara —
people with no safety from bondage,
beings going through the wandering-on,
headed for birth & death.

While those who've abandoned craving,
free from the craving for becoming & non-,
reaching the ending of fermentations,
though in the world,
have gone beyond.

The second noble truth says that the cause of suffering is craving.

But what's the relationship between craving and ignorance?

Have you heard of the old South Indian Monkey Trap (from this article)?

In Zen And The Art Of Motorcycle Maintenance, Robert Pirsig’s bonkers-but-brilliant philosophical novel that turns 40 this year, he describes “the old South Indian Monkey Trap”. ... The trap “consists of a hollowed-out coconut, chained to a stake. The coconut has some rice inside which can be grabbed through a small hole”. The monkey’s hand fits through the hole, but his clenched fist can’t fit back out. “The monkey is suddenly trapped.” But not by anything physical. He’s trapped by an idea, unable to see that a principle that served him well – “when you see rice, hold on tight!” – has become lethal.

The monkey needs to let go of the rice in order to free himself from his suffering. The way to end his suffering, is to end his craving for rice.

But in order to end his craving for rice, he must first understand how his hand is stuck inside the coconut. When the monkey overcomes his ignorance about how the trap works, he would let go of his craving for rice, and release his clenched fist. With this, he would be free from his suffering.

Also you can say that the monkey's suffering originated with his ignorance of the trap.

Knowing how the trap works, i.e. gaining insight and wisdom into the nature of reality, is the way to overcome ignorance.

The old South Indian Monkey Trap (Illustration above: Paul Thurlby for the Guardian)


The Upanishadic "That thou art" is unrelated to Buddhism, because it tells you that you are actually that eternal Self. In Buddhism, all phenomena is not self and the self, being a mental idea, is not eternal or permanent.

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  • @sandeep_telang We can agree that the "I" that ceases is the little, personal "I". The "thou" in "thou are that" of the Upanishads is probably more closely correlated to the Infinite Consciousness of Buddhism. In SN46.54, the Buddha points beyond that consciousness: > SN46.54:14.6: The apex of the heart’s release by rejoicing is the dimension of infinite consciousness, I say, for a mendicant who has not penetrated to a higher freedom. – OyaMist Aug 29 '20 at 15:23
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Many ancient pali literature proposed the end or nirvana as 'tathagata got released'. What does it mean? Do tathagata is bound? Or Do we bound by ignorance and free with right knowledge(Samma Ditthi)?

World does not end with Tathagatas... world is impermanent... it rises , changes ,vanishes...With end of ignorance comes Nirvana.... And Ignorance of what ? Ignorance of Dhamma which says craving is the root cause of suffering and with cessation of craving comes cessation of suffering ....

Samma Ditthi at times coincides with Thou are that, upanishadic dictiom. Five aggregates are mere empty, like mirage of real caste on matter. But, when one gives up that which is not his, he lands onto mirage. And from that mirage he see Truth or who have samma ditthi.

Thou are that means you are that...this is not what Buddha taught...and he does not lands onto mirage if he gives up what is his not...

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  • @sandeeptelang you are twisting the meaning to suit your argument... this behaviour is not appropriate for gaining knowledge... – SacrificialEquation Aug 29 '20 at 13:08
  • @sandeeptelang tathagatas are also like earth... – SacrificialEquation Aug 29 '20 at 13:11
  • It says here, "Major Vedantic schools offer different interpretations of the phrase", and summarises seven of them. The Buddhist doctrine of "self" -- or non-self i.e. anatta or anatman -- may be distinct from other religions (though perhaps you like to see similarities or parallels). Also it's been said on this site that later Hinduism, especially Advaita, was influenced by or incorporated some Buddhist doctrine. – ChrisW Aug 29 '20 at 14:47
  • I've seen that metaphor before, in a (fictional) movie that was set in Tibet or Nepal -- Question: "How do you make a drop of water last forever?" -- Answer: "Put it in the ocean." – ChrisW Aug 29 '20 at 14:54
  • @ChrisW Myriads of views and interpretations won’t end the suffering ... better stick to what Buddha says... adopting some parts of Dhamma won’t solve the problem... Once a conclusion has been reached what benefit does it bring by counting how many intermediate theories we made ? – SacrificialEquation Aug 29 '20 at 14:57

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