According to the Chinese History, subject refers are the 5 survivor of Shaolin legendary grand masters.


In history, Ng Mui was escaping from temple to temple while Bak Mei joined the military and lead the troop to kill/eliminate other shaolin Temple.

What if those 5 elderly grant masters put down status as Monk/Nun, join the military with righteous intention and good deed/win win term and condition with Emperor. In this case, path to Nirvana likely unable to achieve.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_of_Kshitigarbha "Until the hells are empty (of suffering beings), I will not become a Buddha." (「地獄不空,誓不成佛。」)

The intention is to influence the Emperor/General to minimize the damages and at the same time not losing the Empire base on Buddhism teaching? By right those grand masters should equipped with Buddhism/Taoism super natural abilities then should not be difficult.? If it doesn't work and disagreement from Emperor, then quit the military.

If influence to the emperor was success and damages was minimum say 50k killed instead of 500k. So it saved 90% lives and many of them inspired and follow grand master learning Buddhism. Then Buddhism get greater influence and follower multiples.

In this case, can the 50k person killed is waived from Bad Karma? Those grand master should have high Buddhism wisdom power to influence and change ?

This might applicable to corporate working life now or politics world.


1 Answer 1


"Proper means" has nothing to do with the Buddha-Dhamma, good householder, as Shaolin hasn't. To call oneself Buddhas monk, yet not even serious in regard the precepts and dedicated to win and gain, actors for trade, is simply a thief. May no one get fooled by fools.

Wrong deeds stay wrong deeds, precepts are simple and no go, as well as kamma doesn't argue around.

But in regard whether a mass-murder could become a saint, Arahat, reaching Nibbana in present life: yes (as long as not killed mother, father or an Arahat). One may get familar with

Angulimala: A Murderer's Road to Sainthood, by Hellmuth Hecker (2007; 12pp./37KB)
A biography in the BPS's "Lives of the Disciples" series. A brief biography of Angulimala, the notorious bandit who was transformed by the Dhamma and eventually became an arahant.

Results of actions are still arising for Saints, but taken with ease, impersonal untouched by Arahts.

[Note that this isn't given for trade binding to the world, stacks, exchange... but for rekease from this wheel]

  • re-edit back my question. Those monk/nun must put down status as layman and of course with terms and condition - no killing of parent and other monks with Emperor else negotiation fail. In this case, it's difficult to reach Nirvana if join the force, that's why Bodhisattva that qualified to Nirvana was born to stay and help in Samsara and influence others to the path of Nirvana.
    – Wayne97
    Commented Aug 29, 2020 at 3:20
  • @Wayne97 The "Bodhisattva" doctrine is a feature of Mahayana, which Samana Johann may consider unorthodox. The "vinaya" (rules of discipline and etiquette for monks) may exist in forms (lineages) in different places; but people who are familiar with the Theravada Vinayana could find that difficult to reconcile with the behaviour of modern martial artists (demonstrating acrobatic prowess etc.). The first result I found from google.com/search?q=shaolin+vinaya was this discussion on Sutta Central.
    – ChrisW
    Commented Aug 29, 2020 at 7:14
  • @Wayne97 I think that that (i.e. "only focus on personal enlightenment") might what Mahayana would call "Hinayana" -- not "Theravada" (which means old or "senior", not "small", i.e. "the way of the elder monks", the word "Thera" meaning "senior monk"). See also this comment.
    – ChrisW
    Commented Aug 29, 2020 at 7:33
  • thanks Chris for the comment and guide.
    – Wayne97
    Commented Aug 29, 2020 at 7:45
  • Who helps by harming others? Who helps even by wandering on and feed on others? Cheer foolish ideas... Wrong stays wrong and harm, harm. Not a little can those thieves be regarded as offsprings of the Buddha but simple foolish heros for one day, supporter of a side and harmer of many for there foolish ways... End never, not even as Bodhisatta, had the Sublime Buddha any aspiration to stay and continue harm. Folktales... Commented Aug 29, 2020 at 7:46

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