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If I have the idea of an "apple" or its taste,

  • is the idea as real as the apple itself?

Specifically

  • do the objects of the 6th consciousness depend on anything except the 6th consciousness?

In normal philosophical terms

  • does the idea depend on the mind having the idea, in order to exist?

I think these are all equivalent questions, because causation is the conventional truth - ideas, the ultimate - no causation, and the middle - the buddha nature or mind-body.

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The illusion (AtthaPaññatti;UpādāyaPaññatti) and the name (NāmaPaññatti) are not real, never arise. I think they are called "Conceptual (Paññati)" in english, right?

Everything is Paññatti which imagine by mind, not real. except arisable 5 aggregates which depending on various origins each time and Nibbāna which never arise and not depending on anything. The mind uses them to imagine Paññatti.

The real is each arisable element in 5 aggregates which mind using to create illusion and name. Even if we talking about the 5 aggregates which possible to arise in the future, this 5 aggregates is real as well. Opposite, the 5 aggregates which being not arisable, is NāmaPaññatti instead.

Each arisable element (both Nāmas and Rūpas) are depending on various origin to really arise.

So, the Buddhā said in SN SaṅkhataLakkhaṇaSutta:

  1. Sankhatalakhaṇasuttaṃ –– The signs of a compounded

  2. Bhikkhus, these three are the signs of a compounded. What three? The arising is evident, the fading is evident and the change is evident. Bhikkhus, these three are the signs of a compounded.

Nibbāna is real because it is the opposite of ariseable clinging 5 aggregates. no one can finish 5 aggregates while everyone are knowing Paññatti everyday. Only Nibbāna can finish 5 aggregates after one knows it.

Another, the special illusion is used in the concentration meditation to avoid 5 strings. This is like a stable brighter and brighter light which appear only at mind door only. This is the way to get out of 5 strings in CittaVisuddhi (mind purification).

See AbhidhammatthaSaṅgaha chapter 8 Paññatti.

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  • this is an ok answer, but you're not answering directly enough. probably my english... do the objects of the 6th consciousness, ideas, depend upon the 6th consciousness only?
    – user2512
    Commented Jul 24, 2020 at 0:07
  • Yes, 5 doors accept only reality, only 5 strings reality. So, Self is imagined on mind door only. Then if we meditate Samatha&Vipassanā enough, we can analysis everything as only depending and uncountable smallest arising elements, then no controllable aggregates appear. 3 characteristics included non-self, are going to appear clearer and clearer after meditate that. Everything is Paññatti which imagine by mind, not real, except arisable 5 aggregates which depending on various origins each time and Nibbāna which never arise and not depending on anything. The mind uses them to imagine Paññatti.
    – Bonn
    Commented Jul 24, 2020 at 0:26
  • sorry bonn, i'm not very au fait with buddhit jargon and terminology. are you saying that they DO only depend on the mind? i disagree, but will accept this answer in lieu of one i do agree with
    – user2512
    Commented Jul 24, 2020 at 0:28
  • People think 5 strings are real Self, person who being controllable, in mind door, but the truth is there are only uncountable uncontrollable arising elements at every doors, six doors. People don't realize and can't see this truth on every moments, then think "Self is reality".
    – Bonn
    Commented Jul 24, 2020 at 0:32
  • And I said like this: we can know reality in every doors, but the imagination is only created by mind door because there are no any imagines (concept, illusion, name, self) which being real, ariseable. I'm sorry my english is not good enough. I'm a Thai, english is not my native language. And even it is, this still hard to describe.
    – Bonn
    Commented Jul 24, 2020 at 0:38
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The 6th c’ss works with memories of past experiences, as well as sense impressions from the five sensory consciousnesses, in tandem or separately.

the 2nd point

But

That the impressions are coalesced into the idea of an “apple” requires having acquired that concept previously, learning what it means, and then applying it to novel sensations.

the 3rd point

The three are not identical, according this "personal communication"

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