Could dry vipassana & pure one-pointed samadhi type meditations just be different approaches to the same enlightenment?

If one attains the fourth jhana with one pointed concentration does one experience anatta? What about anicca & dukkha? How is sunyata related to anatta?

Is it really necessary to focus on non-consepts at some point in order for one pointed (ekaggata) concentration to lead to enlightenment?

Are there scriptures that can help us understand this?

3 Answers 3


The question is loaded with erroneous doctrines that epitomise this other question.

  1. There is no such thing as "dry vipassana". Since the suttas (SN 22.59) say vipassana results in dispassion & nirodha, obviously any vipassana-dispassion-nirodha will contribute to calmness & samadhi.

  2. Vipassana means 'clear seeing'. Since 'vipassana' is 'seeing', it is 'non-conceptual'. When the Burmese teach the practise of "mental noting", such mental noting is not vipassana. Instead, it is a crude form of 'sampajjana'.

  3. Samadhi means the mind is not distracted; which is the meaning of 'one-pointedness'. 'One-pointedness' does not mean have narrow awareness upon a tiny object or point.

  4. Vipassana is a result or fruit of samadhi (AN 4.41; AN 11.2; MN 149). Samadhi & vipassana are not "two different approaches".

  5. When the mind is not distracted, it naturally automatically knows the breathing.

  6. When the mind naturally knows the breathing, it also naturally automatically experiences the breathing is impermanent and also experiences the body breathes rather than the self breathes. Seeing this not-self of the breathing is what the suttas mean by "alien". This is the beginning of vipassana.

  7. "Dukkha" in relation to impermanence has a different meaning to "dukkha" as a noble truth. In relationship to impermanence, "dukkha" means "unsatisfactoriness", i.e., the incapacity of an impermanent thing to bring lasting reliable happiness.

  8. Suttas about how vipassana is a result of samadhi include AN 4.41, AN 11.2 and MN 149.

  9. In summary, the Buddha taught one path (Noble Eightfold Path) which culminates in samadhi and has two fruits (samatha & vipassana) that occur in tandem.

Having thus developed the noble eightfold path... for him these two qualities occur in tandem: tranquillity & insight.

MN 149

  • but when the mind is not distracted it really enjoys a movie too
    – blue_ego
    Commented Jun 7, 2023 at 14:12

A search for anicca dukkha anatta jhana yields 9 suttas, including AN9.36 which starts with the first absorption and continues deeper. Notice that the meditator is not just experiencing passively, but is encouraged to be actively involved.

Mendicants, I say that the first absorption is a basis for ending the defilements. ... They contemplate the phenomena there—included in form, feeling, perception, choices, and consciousness—as impermanent, as suffering, as diseased, as an abscess, as a dart, as misery, as an affliction, as alien, as falling apart, as empty, as not-self.

The instructions given in the suttas are terse and can be misinterpreted. Please consult with a teacher for personal guidance.

  • Members are welcome to consult with Dhammadhatu, however for Dhamma rather than personal guidance. Commented Oct 15, 2019 at 23:33

Parrot Thinking if you can think

In india I am hindu. I am muslim. I am Christian . I am buddhist . That create division from human beings. If you see Christian hate hindu. Hindu hate Christian That "I" create division I am that. Every one is same you know that but our believe i am buddhist. I am hindu .I am Christian. Create division

Parrot never understand truth Parrot replay words. I am buddhist. I am that .this is division form me and you beacuse your are Buddhist and I am Christian ..

So parrot caught in me Me divide

  • but who is teaching parrot?
    – blue_ego
    Commented Jun 7, 2023 at 14:18

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