In essence, the concepts of

  • eight worldly winds
  • tanha
  • upadana

seem to describe the same phenomena.

Is there a specific reason that they are described separately?

  • The "winds" are "just" objects, the objects, being touched on avijja, tanha and upadana arises. So they do not describe the same, but are chains of depending co-arising, good householder.
    – user11235
    Commented Oct 3, 2019 at 3:41
  • Simalar question: buddhism.stackexchange.com/questions/9378/…
    – Lowbrow
    Commented Oct 4, 2019 at 22:48

2 Answers 2


To me, these are three entirely different things.

Eight Worldly Winds are an allegory for a list of egoistic concerns, like being obsessed with fame, blame, etc.

Tanha (thirst) is a metaphor for craving something unattainable, in other words an inner conflict between "is" and "should".

Upadana (fuel) is a metaphor for "feeding" an unhealthy state of mind by repeatedly thinking about topics that sustain the state.

While in some situations they may occur closely together, they refer to three entirely different phenomena.

  • Are you saying that tanha isn’t a problem when it pertains to things we can achieve?
    – user11699
    Commented Oct 2, 2019 at 9:19
  • 1
    Erik, when we can achieve reasonably and without conflict, then it doesn't become Tanha, it's just following path to a goal.
    – Andriy Volkov
    Commented Oct 2, 2019 at 12:40
  • And what is the reasonably? Seeing desire after it as it's cause. One who takes on isn't free.
    – user11235
    Commented Oct 3, 2019 at 3:38
  • Like in god realm, Samana, there's no place for Tanha when things go smoothly, but still not free, right.
    – Andriy Volkov
    Commented Oct 3, 2019 at 11:57

Eight world winds, tanha and upadana are synonyms for lamp oil, flame and wick. Because of lamp of eight wordly winds oil is generated, because of tanha or flame it burns and the wick or upadana is main support to consume oil and support that to the flame. They are 3 stands never ever seperated. When one leads to 7th i.e Samma Sati one can know and see 3 triads. How to destroy the three is in 8th. Because of 8th, the Samma Samadhi it can be destroyed with blowing out the fame. Samma samadhi means watching all the working of lamp with that of detachment in every day life. No fuel to be generated. But Samma Samadhi needs the Sword of Knowledg i.e. Vision of Unborn. Hope this answer what you are looking for. May all beings happy!

  • One does not progress toward release from the winds by means of effort in concentration, as right concentration has the requirment of it's condition. As long no vision of going forth, the path can not develop.
    – user11235
    Commented Oct 3, 2019 at 3:45
  • Yes. True.That's what I mean honorable sir. But, forgive me, you may not agree, although I am fool, but the Eightfold path I love. It's like "God is watching over you, he know what you are doing, he is beyond good and evil that's why he is knower of deeds".That's real Samma Ditthi. How can one who know, he is watching, commit misdeeds? Ordinary people doesn't know it! Doing good deeds are virtues. Never in any place Buddha condemn them but he condemn inactivity and misdeeds both. Life lived with good deeds is Nibbana. It's life of peace here and now. Not a goal to be found after death. Commented Oct 3, 2019 at 5:56
  • When rejoicing in good undertakings themselves, not much thinking toward results and gains, then of cause there is bliss here and now and beyond, being clear of what is kusala and what is akusala. Nothing to fear once these has become clear, good householder. Sharing ones merits toward the world (Gods, Devas, Sangha, wise...) as governing principle .
    – user11235
    Commented Oct 3, 2019 at 7:41
  • Is "are synonyms for lamp oil, flame and wick" your own explanation, or can you reference the text which contains this explanation?
    – ChrisW
    Commented Oct 4, 2019 at 3:19

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