3

Namo Buddhaya! (I am a Theravada Buddhist)

The Vinaya says monks & nuns cannot be together in private (it would be an offense).

But what if someone is a homosexual, how would they go about ordaining, as they would not be able to technically be with men then (similar to nuns)?

I would have a hard time believing the Buddha would discriminate against someone who is a homosexual.

IF they cannot ordain,

what is the reason that they can't ordain as according to the Buddha? ( WITH SOURCE)

The Buddha chose to ordain woman, and homosexuals for sure can overcome their sexual urges just as a woman can towards men AS WELL, so why can't homosexuals ordain?

(Please, if possible, cite sources!)

Metta!

  • 1
    Possible duplicate of What is a pandaka? – ruben2020 Aug 25 at 5:19
  • @ruben2020 I am not asking what the debatable pandaka is, I altered my query to ask how homosexuals can ordain and if not, why explicitly can they not. I hope this helped clarify. :) Metta – Dhamma4All Aug 25 at 20:15
1

I don't want to spend time on this topic, but fyi ...

A partial answer from Wikipedia Buddhism and sexual orientation -- Paṇḍakas

The paṇḍaka is a complex category that is variously defined in different Buddhist texts. In the earliest texts, the word seems to refer to a socially stigmatized class of trans-feminine and/or cross-dressing people, some of whom may have been sex workers. Paisarn Likhitpreechakul argue that these people are grouped together as special types of those suffering impotence due to seminal absence/deficiency rather than gender roles.

Paṇḍaka is categorized along with other stigmatized groups who are excluded from ordination as well; those with physical disabilities such as deafness or dwarfism, or those who have committed crimes. "The Story of the Prohibition of the Ordination of Pandaka" from the Vinaya claims that the ban is a response to the example of a paṇḍaka monk with a desire to have sex. Being refused by other monks, he had sex with animal handlers, who then told the wider community and brought disgrace upon the sangha.

So it's from Vinaya commentary, apparently, if you like to research that.

So that's why topics like What is a pandaka? revolve around wonering what the word "paṇḍaka" even means.

"Are you a paṇḍaka?" isn't one of among the questions asked at ordination, so I don't know at what point in the process the question even arises.


This overview of the Vinaya says on page 100,

The twelve equivalent p›r›jikas include the eleven disqualified types who should not be ordained as bhikkhus in the first place. If they happen to be ordained, their ordination is invalid; once they are found out they must be expelled for life (Mv.I.61-68; see BMC2, Chapter 14 for details). They are—

  • a pa˚˜aka (essentially, a eunuch or a person born neuter—see Saºgh›disesa 2),
  • a “non-human” being, (this includes n›gas, petas, devas, and yakkhas),
  • a hermaphrodite,
  • a person who poses as a bhikkhu without having been ordained,
  • a bhikkhu who has ordained in another religion without first giving up his status as a bhikkhu,
  • a person who has murdered his father,
  • a person who has murdered his mother,
  • a person who has murdered an arahant,
  • a person who has sexually molested a bhikkhunı,
  • a person who has maliciously injured a Buddha to the point of causing him to bleed, and
  • a person who has dishonestly caused a schism in the Saºgha, knowing or suspecting that his position was contrary to the Dhamma-Vinaya.

These eleven equivalent p›r›jikas apply to bhikkhunıs as well. The twelfth equivalent p›r›jika, which applies only to bhikkhunıs, is the case where a bhikkhunı leaves the Bhikkhunı Saºgha and takes up the role of a lay woman (Cv.X.26.1). Unlike the bhikkhus, the bhikkhunıs have no formal procedure for disrobing. If they leave the Saºgha, they are not allowed to reordain for the rest of this lifetime.

A "parajika" rule is a rule for which the consequence is disrobing i.e. no longer being a member of the sangha.

  • Incidentally I'm not saying that "homosexuals cannot ordain", instead I was only trying to "cite sources" i.e. to cite what the source is and what it says. – ChrisW Aug 26 at 10:17
0

Homosexuals may fall under asittaka pandaka. They cannot ordain.

asittakapandaka - A man who gains satisfaction from performing oral sex on another man and from ingesting his semen, and only becomes sexually aroused after ingesting another man's semen.

Source: Pandaka

  • 2
    According to this answer, āsitta-paṇḍaka and usūya-paṇḍaka can ordain. The others cannot. – ruben2020 Aug 25 at 6:32
  • Just a heads up: the original question was edited. – Erik Aug 26 at 5:17

Your Answer

By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.