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I heard from a Monk that dependent origination is akaliko or timeless what did he exactly mean with that.

Is Nibbana outside of time and space and could you explain how and why if it is.

Is the prinicple of dependent origination of suffering the same as what happens outside in nature like when a seed is planted then with enough sunshine and rain etc the flower grows if not what is the difference between them.

Thank you.

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Akalio means that it is timeless, which is it works all the time and not specific times, it is unconditioned by time and season, it is effective immediately with the laps in time, the past and future. It's working is never suspended or stopped.

The society may believe or not believe it. The Buddha's dhamma may exit or not, even if a Buddha (who preaches this dhamma) exists or not. Regardless this is the reality for all times unconditioned by time.

  • The Dhamma Law exists all the time but this is not the meaning of "akaliko". Refer to AN 3.136 suttacentral.net/an3.136/en/sujato & SN 12.20 suttacentral.net/sn12.20/en/bodhi which refer to "whether there is an arising of Tathagatas or no arising of Tathagatas, that element still persists, the stableness of the Dhamma, the fixed course of the Dhamma". Regards – Dhammadhatu Jul 6 at 4:56
  • Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. – ChrisW Jul 7 at 8:31
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Is Nibbana outside of time and space and could you explain how and why if it is.

I do not recall the Buddha ever teaching the above. The Buddha taught Nibbana is here-&-now (diṭṭhadhammanibbāna); for example in AN 9.51.

Is the prinicple of dependent origination of suffering the same as what happens outside in nature like when a seed is planted then with enough sunshine and rain etc the flower grows if not what is the difference between them.

Both the dependent origination of suffering and the causality leading to a flower are examples of "conditionality" ("idappaccayatā") or "law of cause & effect". However, in the original Pali teachings (but not in Mahayana), the term "dependent origination" ("paticcasamuppada") is used or reserved for the arising of suffering.

I heard from a Monk that dependent origination is akaliko or timeless what did he exactly mean with that.

"Akaliko" does not mean "outside of time & space". "Timeless" is a wrong or misleading translation of "akaliko". The word "akaliko" means "immediate" or "immediately effective". Its "immediacy" or "without delay" is what relates "akaliko" is the notion of "time".

Thus, is respect to dependent origination, the term "akaliko", for example, means as soon as there is arising of "attachment", there will be the arising of stress. Or as soon as there is the ceasing of "attachment", there will be the cessation of stress. It means that one condition or cause that leads to the arising of another condition or cause is "not delayed by time". It is "immediate". MN 28 says:

Now this has been said by the Blessed One: “One who sees dependent origination sees the Dhamma; one who sees the Dhamma sees dependent origination.” And these five aggregates affected by clinging are dependently arisen. The desire, indulgence, inclination, and holding based on these five aggregates affected by clinging is the origin of suffering. The removal of desire and lust, the abandonment of desire and lust for these five aggregates affected by clinging is the cessation of suffering.’ At that point too, friends, much has been done by that bhikkhu.”

That dependent origination is "akaliko" is confirmed in MN 38, which says:

Good, bhikkhus. So you have been guided by me with this Dhamma, which is visible here and now, immediately effective, inviting inspection, onward leading, to be experienced by the wise for themselves. For it was with reference to this that it has been said: ‘Bhikkhus, this Dhamma is visible here and now, immediately effective, inviting inspection, onward leading, to be experienced by the wise for themselves.’

That dependent origination is "akaliko" shows clearly why the Three Lifetimes theory of dependent origination is wrong.

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    Thank you Dhammadhatu, so Nibbana is nothing metaphysical and instead condiered part of nature? Also is it possible to reach Nibbana by understanding dependent origination and thereby understanding how we unconciously create the emotional existence of the separte self or is the Jhanas also necessary, to me personaly and i think the Buddha said it also, dependent origination when fully understood leads to Nibbana am I right, we are stoping that unconcious process of becoming a emotionally attached separate self when we understood it and then the unconditioned appear am I right about this. – personal practice Jul 6 at 5:32
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    Nibbana is a dhatu or element of nature, per MN 115, which refers to the asankhata dhatu and other suttas that refer to the Nibbana Element and Deathless Element – Dhammadhatu Jul 7 at 1:30
  • Seeing dependent origination will result in the ending of dependent origination to the degree of the seeing. For the aspirant & stream-enterer jhana is not required to begin seeing dependent origination. Only practising for Arahant needs 4th jhana. To see D.O it must 1st be properly intellectually understood so to know where & what to look at – Dhammadhatu Jul 7 at 1:34
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I heard from a Monk that dependent origination is akaliko or timeless what did he exactly mean with that.

Akalika means non expiring or valid for any given time. Actually time is something that does not exist in the world. It's introduces to the world to explain things. Dependent Origination (DO) is what exist in the world. This is a very complex thing to explain here. So this DO is a model of how the thoughts process happens in a mind and it causes to change the outside world as well. When there are causes it makes a result this is a cycle-process (happening again and again). No matter time exist ot not it happens. Someone who wants to measure this (eg: science) can define a dimension of time. In buddhism it only considers is past present and future this is also just because its needed to explain things.

Is Nibbana outside of time and space and could you explain how and why if it is.

By now time is already covered and answered. The Nibbana is a state in the mind. Mind is what inside. We always change our inside minds based on outside world expecting it will make us satisfy, but it doesn't. Because real/ultimate/noble satisfaction (Nibbana) is inside the mind. Once someone sees that satisfaction inside the mind, he realizes worrying or being happy based on the out side world is THE MOST stupid thing in the world. So since Nibbana is a state of a mind it has nothing to do woth time and space.

Is the prinicple of dependent origination of suffering the same as what happens outside in nature like when a seed is planted then with enough sunshine and rain etc the flower grows if not what is the difference between them.

Dependent Origination (DO) is a model to explain how mind works. And in that it uses the word 'paccaya' which means A causes to result B, or if A exists then B exists. This 'paccaya' is one principal out of 24 principals explained in buddhism. So the different is (based on scenarios you given) DO is inside mind.

And also DO is not only based on suffering. It talks about suffering only when its initiated from 'Avidya'. There are some DO cycles expalined in Thripitaka without 'Avidya' these called 'avyakrutha' This is what runs inside Arhanth person's mind.

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Right has it been taught by the Venerable One, to that extent. It means while bound to the world, it will work always this way, timeless, in every situation.

And yes, this Dhamma of the Buddha is a timeless one:

"From an inconstruable beginning comes transmigration. A beginning point is not evident, though beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving are transmigrating & wandering on... Assu Sutta: Tears

In regard of housholders question toward the beyond, Bhante Thanissaro recently shared a nice collection on Nibbana: Talking about Nirvana

It's good to focus on the condition for depending-co-disapearing, now having gained a blessed situation, by Saddha, right view, perfection of virtue, to go beyond time and space: Upanisa Sutta: Prerequisites , as it is not timeless to have accumulated the Prerequisites for liberation.

Much success in making the proper choices!

(Note that this gift of Dhamma is not dedicated for trade, exchange, stacks or entertainment but as a means to make merits toward release from this wheel)

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