# Goal of liberation in yoga/meditation - Isn't it Boring?

I see that the goal of yoga/meditation is liberation from the karma and from the birth/death cycle. People say that it is the ultimate happiness forever. But wouldn't that be boring and monotonous if there is happiness forever?

• You're assuming 'forever' is a long time. For a truly happy person it is just the 'Perennial Now' or 'Divine Instant'. Also, imagine losing all your fear of death and dissolution - wouldn't this make you more happy than bored? . – user14119 Jun 19 '19 at 11:10

In Buddhism, Nibbana refers to liberation from suffering (dukkha). It is also referred to as the highest bliss (nibbanam paramam sukham) in Dhp 204. The word sukha is translated in this context as bliss, but in other contexts, also as happiness.

Boredom is a type of suffering. An enlightened person is free from this type of suffering too.

We have 3 types of feelings - pleasant feelings (usually associated with sensual enjoyment), painful feelings (usually associated with aversion) and neither-pleasant-nor-painful feelings (usually associated with boredom and confusion). Feelings here include forms with eyes, sound with ears, odor with nose, taste with tongue, touch with body and ideas with mind.

When an unenlightened person experiences neither-pleasant-nor-painful (or neutral) feelings, he may experience boredom. But when an enlightened person experiences neutral feelings, he experiences bliss.

So, is unending happiness or bliss a source of boredom? Not for the enlightened one.

What causes boredom?

The neither-pleasant-nor-painful feelings also known as neutral feelings, normally make us bored or dissatisfied. Cravings (tanha) would lead one to seek pleasures (kama tanha) or to become something or achieve something (bhava tanha) rather than sit around all day experiencing neutral feelings that don't bring satisfaction. No feelings at all, would also be a cause for boredom and dissatisfaction.

The first noble truth states that there is suffering.

The second noble truth states that the cause of suffering is craving. This includes the suffering of boredom too.

The third noble truth states that with the cessation of craving, comes the cessation of suffering. This includes the cessation of boredom too.

The fourth noble truth shows the path to end suffering, which is the noble eightfold path.

Householder sundar, interested,

this question is a very advanced one and the seek after lastig satisfying happiness, if not informed, binds so hard to suffering, but if seen the escape and the posibility trough human effort, turns one to refined, longer lasting and release, where such as boredom can not reach.

The carpenter Pañcakanga once asked the Buddha about the kinds of feelings who left him open a choice of the many kinds.

Ananda, that some wanderers of other persuasions might say, 'Gotama the contemplative speaks of the cessation of perception & feeling and yet describes it as pleasure. What is this? How can this be?' When they say that, they are to be told, 'It's not the case, friends, that the Blessed One describes only pleasant feeling as included under pleasure. Wherever pleasure is found, in whatever terms, the Blessed One describes it as pleasure.'”

It is right if one says, that happiness gained by Yoga (meaning "taking on the whole yoke", work) meditation alone could not be lasting satisfying, is no refuge, never under ones controll, nor really real, since it is always conditioned and conditioned phenomenas are actually not lasting. What ever happiness to gain requires work, sacrifices, pain, even when attained, to maintain it further. Yet ordinary pleasure, based on the five senses requires a lot of pain for very short pleasure, needed even as livelihood, thought on raw food, to be able to walk on and do not break apart. This raw food of sensuality does not only require on sacrifices but harm other and is mostly not voluntary given and so leads to more conflicts.

Contentment with low kind of happiness is much more subject to boredom in shorter and more harmful ways for oneself and others, so seek after refined is needed, and contentment here it enemy to find better or even release, lasting satisfation.

If one is in a palace, enjoys what ever senspleasure is avaliable, proper similies are needed so that one could find needed faith:

“...Even so but to a still greater degree, Aggivessana, is Prince Jayasena hemmed in, blocked, obstructed, enveloped by this mass of ignorance. Indeed, that Prince Jayasena, living as he does in the midst of sense-pleasures, enjoying sense-pleasures, being consumed by thoughts of sense-pleasures, eager in the search for sense-pleasures, should know or see or attain or realize that which can be known… seen… attained… realized by renunciation — such a situation does not exist. Had these two similes occurred to you, Aggivessana, for Prince Jayasena, Prince Jayasena naturally would have acted in the manner of one having trust in you.” The Discourse on the 'Tamed Stage'

If one maintains ones needed joy by meditation, it would not harm anybody, neither oneself (think on all the side-effects of sensepleasures on health and freedom lose by addictions), nor others (think that all sensepleasure harms endless beings and lives till foods for senses can be consumed). Jet of cource, since thist and greed after pleasure is not stilled, even if no more after raw sense pleasures, even when thinking on highest sensual pleasures, one gets bored with it, has no controll of it and the maintaining becomes burdensome and doubt, whether there is a better arises again: this very craving. Gaining every day ones beloved food, one gets sick of it, since the mind, not knowing release, searches always for more and anew. The refined food gained by the work in yoga-meditation, how ever, not only that it is always different and much more refined, has a lot of levels of fineness, satisfies more lasting, not only because it does not harm others and would thereby fast taken away and fought by others again.

Yet nevertheless this satifaction would break apart, so those work, yoga, has to be understood in two ways, one as a good livelihood, to gain a pleasent dwelling, one to investigate all kinds of pleasures and the need for gain, that all those states are not lasting, subject of aging, sickness and death.

Once somebody sees and understands that what ever state and retined happiness, existing, would nevertheless of no lastig satisfacion, seeing the disadvantages even in heavenly states of high conncentration, this is the point where the Buddha and Arahats would teach the Sublime Dhamma of the Noble Ones, the Four Noble Truth. to those tending to renouncing the meaningless seek after real happiness in the worlds.

"Bhikkhus, it is through not realizing, through not penetrating the Four Noble Truths that this long course of birth and death has been passed through and undergone by me as well as by you. What are these four? They are the noble truth of dukkha; the noble truth of the origin of dukkha; the noble truth of the cessation of dukkha; and the noble truth of the way to the cessation of dukkha. But now, bhikkhus, that these have been realized and penetrated, cut off is the craving for existence, destroyed is that which leads to renewed becoming, and there is no fresh becoming."

Having listened with proper attention, attantion of what gives birth within, once this is penetrated, the cause clear seen, and by the right approach it's cause, not understanding, by seeing by one self, uprooted, one breaks into the deathless sphere, the unconditioned, having done the work, and at this point, no more work is needed, all done and lasting satisfaction attained. No more birth, aging, sickness and death, noting further for this world and by breaking up of the body, with death, finaly Nibbana has been gained.

Till then, after attaining the deathless, here and now, while still alive, one would spend much time in this Jhanas, states of concentration, as pleasant livelihood, next to live from alms to maintain body and give others a possibility for great merits.

That is why the follower of the Buddha chant daily: "N'atthi santi param sukham" 'No peace is higher as the heal of Beyond/Nibbana'

The Yoke of the Eightfold paths mastering is not taken on for further wandering on, but by seeing that what ever conditioned states can not be lasting satisfied, are pointless.

Yoga Sutta: Yokes Joined with the yoke of sensuality & the yoke of becoming, joined with the yoke of views, surrounded by ignorance, beings go to the wandering-on, heading to birth & death. But those who comprehend sensuality & the yoke of becoming — entirely — who have thrown off the yoke of views and are dispassionate toward ignorance, disjoined from all yokes: they — their yokes overcome — are sages indeed.

Right labor makes free!

Possible good to remark, that the path is not gained by concentration, but 'simply' by hearing the good Dhamma and proper attention, as for right concentration, fruit and release, the aim, once right view is gained, virtue purified, there is no more need of will required, and will be effected by the previous given causes:

"For a person endowed with virtue, consummate in virtue, there is no need for an act of will, 'May freedom from remorse arise in me.' It is in the nature of things that freedom from remorse arises in a person endowed with virtue, consummate in virtue.

"For a person free from remorse, there is no need for an act of will, 'May joy arise in me.' It is in the nature of things that joy arises in a person free from remorse... ...rapturous... ...serene in body... ...experiencing pleasure... ...whose mind is concentrated... ...who knows & sees things as they actually are... ...who feels disenchantment... ...

..."For a dispassionate person, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I realize the knowledge & vision of release.' It is in the nature of things that a dispassionate person realizes the knowledge & vision of release.

"In this way, dispassion has knowledge & vision of release as its purpose, knowledge & vision of release as its reward.... ...Skillful virtues have freedom from remorse as their purpose, freedom from remorse as their reward.

"In this way, mental qualities lead on to mental qualities, mental qualities bring mental qualities to their consummation, for the sake of going from the near to the Further Shore."

Mudita & Anumodana

Possible extended answer and given space for discussion or what ever inspired, can be found here: [Q&A] Goal of liberation in yoga/meditation - Isn't it Boring?

(Note: this is not given for exchange, stacks, trade or entertainment but as a means for liberation from this wheel.)

Dependent in the experience of boredom are feelings of disinterest and distance. We are not part of our experience because our feelings of bored dissatisfaction keep us at one remove. The enlightened mind is, by definition, always engaged. Mindfulness, energy, joy, concentration, and the other seven factors of enlightenment are all present and expressed. Each one of these factors is compelling, captivating, and fully intimate with the world. How could a mind so engaged possibly have room for boredom?

I will give you a metaphor, for some wise people here can grasp the meaning conveyed by means of a metaphor.

A couple of days ago during my morning commute I saw a guy... Judging by the fat joint sticking out his lips, he was smoking marijuana... as he jumped off the back of the slowing down truck to grab the next portion of trash cans and empty them in, then jump back on the truck as it was already starting to move. From his all-teeth smile it looked like his morning was going well: he was high on weed, enjoying the movement and the rhythm, loud R&B music playing in his over-the-ear headphones.

In contrast to the trash guy's, my morning was rather "boring" and "monotonous": I had my usual milk-over-oatmeal breakfast out on my lake-facing deck and was driving my old Toyota Camry to a parking garage next to the company's office. My car's stereo played quiet piano of Ludovico Einaudi's "Seven Days Walking" series. For a moment I felt like I almost envied what seemed to be his youth and his "freedom". Two seconds later the illusion has passed.

It was clear that the guy's subjective world was a kind of good-morning-in-hell, with loud noises and stinking smells covered up by the marijuana-induced excitement of jumping up and down the garbage truck in rhythm with the music. My quiet morning was less exciting, true - but I knew I did not want to trade places with the garbage guy.

The mind of Samsara is like the experience of that garbage truck guy. Even though it has a lot of excitement, there's no way the mind of Enlightenment would want to trade places with it.

• ohh... I understand, Andrei thinks Camry driver, going to work, listening to that music... is metaphor for the yogi on the way to Liberation... – user11235 Jun 18 '19 at 23:18
• "The mind of Samsara is like the experience of that garbage truck guy." - but the Camry-driver is not a valid metaphor for Nibbana... As a good monk I will not troll in the comments but will edit my answer to explain why ;) – user11235 Jun 18 '19 at 23:20