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Vaṇṇā-maccharia, stinginess in regard ones honor, reputation, don't letting make others use of it, envy to lose it, is one of the five kinds of maccharia, based on ingratitude, wrong view, and a quality not only absent in all Noble Once, but also a hindrence to attain whatever Jhana, path or fruit.

What are practices to train to learn not being stingy in regard of ones honour, beauty, sublimity?

What and where to give into?

What traditional practice is done by faithful followers in that regard?


A/the realated topic with given space for discussion and possible answer can be found here.

(note that this question is not given for trade, stacks, exchange or entertainment, but for ones work trough maccharia to escape the wheel here and liberation)

  • Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. – ChrisW Jun 16 at 4:55
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At the surface, you can look at how we do unskilled bodily, verbal and metal volitional formations due to stinginess for reputation (vanna maccariya). For example, one utters false speech to maintain a status. One kills, steals, etc. (all 10 can be looked at this way).

But to understand this in the Noble sense, you need to first understand the arising phenomena of stinginess. As explained in the Vattupama Sutta (Simile of the Cloth) it can be understood that it is because of Disparaging (palaso); and underneath that is difference in volitional formations (sankhara). For example, the person who lies to maintain a reputation have given different values to such statuses and disparage one status over another and holding on to that idea now doing even immoral acts (dussilam) to maintain it. This way we roam in samsara.

In order to go further deep, you need to understand how the stream of consciousness flow. You may not understand that without the pre-requisite dhamma therefore I won't try to explain it here.

Stinginess for reputation is connected with misapprehending feeling as pleasure but it has to be understood with above flow of consciousness and how the five-fold stinginess attributing to each other to maintain the flow.

Person who has destroyed all cankers (i.e. an arahat) does not have stinginess.

If you are interested in learning more, take a look at discussions in English stream on this website: https://visuddhimagga.info/

  • Good to try to overcome stinginess here and risk some lose of vanna. two quick things, householder: 1. starting from streamenter, Noble ones are free of stinginess, so all not only the Arahat. 2. Householder did not provide much of practice toward it, eg. generositie, sila and it's special kinds in regard of vanna-maccharia. Most deals with break of precepts to gain vanna. Holding on vanna, maccharia, itself does not necessary requires break of precepts. – Samana Johann Jun 30 at 23:13
  • (1) At a gross level one might think the a stream enterer has removed maccariya but that is not the case. It gets more subtle but as long as you have the idea of a self, to that extent all 5 maccariya can arise. (2) The practice leading to the complete removal of maccariya is the Noble Eight Fold Path. In the Noble dhamma, when you realize the origin & cessation of something, that's when you realize it can be removed. Therefore contemplate on how one misapprehends feeling as pleasure and as a result mental volition happen. – ahtisarw Jul 3 at 4:12
  • And as a result we say "it is pleasure" when it is really suffering (dukka). Now one utters false speech, etc. (remember: vitakka-vicara is verbal volitional formations - doesn't necessarily speak out loud). This might help to understand this: visuddhimagga.info/download.php?file=https://… – ahtisarw Jul 3 at 4:20
  • 1. So ahtisarw is wiser then the elders and the Buddha? -> see own answer at 2. Is householder ahtisarw wake and able to listen or is there running a loop sequence. A Noble Person might still grasp after things, but since knowing by himself that sense and objects are no refuge, would not grasphold on them => void of maccharia. See Vissuddhimagga for details as householder seems to like it. So again, what are the specific practices toward this kind of maccharia. – Samana Johann Jul 3 at 5:25
  • As example: as for training to let go of material things (lābha maccharia) people do engage into Dana. What about listening in lowered position when possible knowledgeable tell something? Isn't vanna macchariya most hindering? – Samana Johann Jul 3 at 5:32
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In a gamified system like SE/SO reputation and score is a source of motivation.

In a Buddhist context, this can be both:

  • stinginess as to one's gains (Lābha-macchariya) - in this case, gain in reputation
  • stinginess as to one's status (Vaṇṇa-macchariya) - in this case, total reputations accumulated

But for this system to work gamified element is essential as this is tied to the privileges on getting on the site. Also, votes and acceptance can guide people who are not very knowledgeable in Dhamma to finding better answers. So one should vote on and accept answers which one sees as being in line with the Dhamma and downvote on ones which seam not being in line with the Dhamma. (Use this sparingly as it might agitate users.)

In the real world giving something has merit as it is useful to others. In this system, one can give to questions and answers as bounty. If one is attached to reputation then this may help reduce macchariya. But a better way is not to be bothered with the reputation gains. If you are mentally not attached then this will not hinder the achievement of Jhana. Having said it is better to put bounties more sparingly to questions which might attract great answers which are useful to the spread of dhamma. Also awarding a bounty may be en endorsement that one agrees with the answer and it is in line with the Dhamma. This should not be left to the system alone. People without much knowledge can use this to distinguish what is in line with the Dhamma and what is not using this as a cue.

To summarise, votes, accepting and bounties serve a purpose, even in spreading the Dhamma. One should explore how this works for oneself and use it wisely so that it aids the spread of the dhamma signalling to other users about the correctness and acceptability of what is being said. Also, look at the system like a hammer. If you are using it there is a particular way to use it. If you do not hit with the head it does not work. So try to put the system to work in a way which benefits the dhamma the most. This being backed by good volition would also mean positive karma.

  • Sadhu for effort. Here a relativation with causes: "in the real world giving"... huch!? Upasaka, what is kamma? What is real on the path? It's not a game but 100% kamma and by mind even much more of effects! "Real world" are the ideas of the Jains, may Upasaka take care here. MN56. Maybe Upasaka likes to investigate it inwardly and outwardly by reading first. – Samana Johann Jul 17 at 5:45
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Let my person give an answer to it in practical ways, related to ones situation, for inspiring of better rhetorical answers by those skilled in such that many could grasp the essence easier and related to ones Nissaya and used bearable food, ways of speech:

Reputations are used to overcome all personal reputations, similar to conceit, so a requirement on the path, given by the three Governing principles, like the four prerequisites, good livelihood and use of food, nourishment. Without such, upholding such, one is not able to walk, has no joy and dies of another time yet not secured. So the Buddha advised on many places, in many ways, to act after merits and gain and to look after ones "beauty with care. Yet by sharing, giving one gain, yet by sharing , giving upwardly one gains ways upwardly. By sharing and giving to equal and lower, one stays where one is or falls of. Not giving, sharing, fire, foods, Kings, thieves and death will take them away and so decay.

The ignorant does not see the value of reputation and how to use them for a better. How much ever he gains by merits, he will waste them off by himself or give them, share them upwardly. He may look for some like a perfect one on not attentive observation of his way of actions related to reputations, received from either wise or fools.

A good householders way to use ones reputations, honor and estimate for better becoming is to invest them upwardly. One could use them equal to material gains:

  • 25% for ones join and life from it
  • 25% for security and bad times
  • 25% for investments to gain more reputations
  • 25% to make merits (best toward giving to the virtuous individuals, the Tripple Gems)

The last is usually done by Veneration, by giving reputations toward the Sangha.

An ordinary monks training is avoid accumulation of personal honor and to receive no personal reputations and if given forward them all to the Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha. To give way reputations upwardly and outwardly intentional would be a violation of his rules.

A Noble Ones ways in regard of reputations is not to hold on them, being free from stinginess. Not free from greed yet, he might up and on take some personal but would not hold on them as soon as it can be given away. Of course such would never intentional give reputations upwardly.

A Perfect One, being free of taking anything personal, does neither accept reputations personal nor would he still hold on some. He shines by being ride of touch by reputations.

In regard of teaching the Dhamma, as the highest field for reputation:

Candūpama Sutta: Comparable to the Moon

..."There is the case, Bhikkhus, that a Bhikkhu teaches the Dhamma, thinking: 'Oh, may they listen to the Dhamma from me. Having learned my Dhamma, may they be settled in believe in it. Having been settled in believe in it, may they show their settlement in believe," this is a kind of Bhikkhu, Bhikkhus, who is giving teaching on Dhamma impurely.

There is the case, Bhikkhus, that a Bhikkhu teaches the Dhamma, thinking: 'The Dhamma of the Blessed One is well taught, direct visible, timeless, inviting to come and see, appropriate, to be self-experianced by the wise. Oh, may they listen to the Dhamma from me. Having learned the Dhamma, may they understand. Having understood the Dhamma, may they practice accordingly.' So he teaches the Dhamma because of the excellence nature of the Dhamma; he teaches the Dhamma out of compassion and kindness, out of concern. This is a kind of Bhikkhu, Bhikkhus, who is giving teaching on Dhamma purely.

Kassapa, Bhikkhus, teaches the Dhamma, thinking: 'The Dhamma of the Blessed One is well taught, direct visible, timeless, inviting to come and see, appropriate, to be self-experianced by the wise. Oh, may they listen to the Dhamma from me. Having learned the Dhamma, may they understand. Having understood the Dhamma, may they practice accordingly.' He teaches the Dhamma because of the excellence nature of the Dhamma; he teaches the Dhamma out of compassion and kindness, out of concern.

What are ways of sharing reputations:

After having proved and investigated, praising of what is worthy to praise, blame of what is worthy to blame, taking worldly loses, even that of friends, to bear. Practicing sharing merits, inviting, expressing joy in merits of others. Bowing, greeting, veneration, hospitality toward those worthy of such of all what has become natural by those having reached the Noble Domain. Putting higher always on higher place, knowing the foremost as foremost, the elder, the more advanced and always give to known such by words, signs and speech and in proper ways, never out for harming others with ones gift, never act deceitful with ones shares for favors.

Note that if using the reputations actually owned by the Tripple Gems, given by the Buddha, by using his heritage, his label, for others then liberation and toward to it, one does not only harm oneself but many by this thieving, fraud.

May it be of good inspiration and motivation to reflect further and possible start to practice it much for many.

(note that this gift of Dhamma is not given for trade, stacks, exchange or entertainment, but for ones work trough maccharia to escape the wheel here and liberation)

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