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What is the different between Nirodha Samapatti and Phala Samapatti? Are they the same? What are the distinctions between them?

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Phalasamapatti is a meditative state in which a person is absorbed in Nibbana itself. In this attainment there is a special kind of consciousness present called Lokuttara-citta.

In contrast to this, in Nirodhasamapatti there is no consciousness at all. In Chapter 8 section 42 of the Abhidhammatha Sangaha it describes it like this:

Having proceeded, thus, up to the base of nothingness, one then attends to the preliminary duties such as the resolution, etc., and enters the base of neither-perception- nor-nonperception. After two occasions of javana in absorption, the continuum of consciousness is suspended. Then, one is said to have attained cessation (nirodha- samāpatti).

Another difference is in who can attain them. Phalasamapatti is attained by each of the four kinds of noble beings just after attaining the knowledge of the path, and it can be cultivated and extended by them as well. Nirodhasamapatti however, can only be entered by non-returners and arahats.

  • Path to Nibbana by Ajahn Jodok says there are 3 samapatti (trances, i.e. states of unconsciousness) in vipassana: jhanasamapati (side-track), phalasamapatti (fruition) and nirodhasamapatti. Experientially, they are can not be different (unconscious). What is the theoretical reason to introduce lokuttara-citta? – eudoxos Oct 14 '16 at 7:40
  • @eudoxos. I beleive they are unconscious in the sense that consciousness = vinanna. And vinanna = split (vi) knowing (nanna). It is what happens as the result of knowing/perceiving arisen objects. So magga/phala (being the pinnacle of the unification of nanna) is simply knowing. As opposed to the knowing of arisen phenomena (aka vinanna). A total lack of awareness is called oblivion and should not be mistaken for magga/phala. This is according to Mahasi Sayadaw's Manual of Insight. (You can search the glossary for the term oblivion to find the relevant pages) – user70 Mar 7 at 23:53
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Here is what the Nirodha Samapatti is defined as

http://www.palikanon.com/english/wtb/n_r/nirodha_samaapatti.htm

Here is the Phala Samapatti progessions http://www.palikanon.com/english/practice_insight/characteristics_of_forgetting.htm

Here is a discussion of if this kind of discussion is fruitful http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=18101

I am not a strong supporter of discussion as a fruitful path to cessation as much as practice but I respect the right of all to choose for everyone may have a different path. It is not for me to say.

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The 8 Jhanas(absorption's) are required for such attainment; the three mentioned in another post, co-inside with: stream entry, once returner, non-returner/arahant.

The five physical aggregates and mental aggregates are not self, the attachment to them are signs of attainment on the path from gross to subtle forms of clinging through desire/craving.

Nirodha samapatti is the extinction of the three poisons; greed, hate, and delusion; the 8th jhana absorption of total emptiness or extinction without remainder, kamma is what forms the gross or subtle body that others experience as form; through their attachment, albeit that attachment is one of ignorance and not one of loving kindness, compassion, or equanimity.

Since that attachment others have is not thus? Then that is what then becomes one's path having attained nibbana, and is the difference between a corpse and a monk... such attachments others have, are then the only cause for further becoming, for them their cause if not fully liberated; is further birth in the cycle of samsara.

One cannot walk the path nor liberate another; it is the duty of oneself to walk the path of the rightly self awakened one.

With Metta; Jim

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Nirodha-Sanna-sampatti is highly meditative steps where the practitioner first aware of neighther perception-nor non perception. It's a base for Nirodha. This state was attained by Udraka muni as said he never leaves place instead silent inside without uttering any word or movement. So, even he has attain this state he is still not succeed in eliminating perception altogether. Why? Because he had not then the Samma Ditthi. The ditthi is where even the perception is not there and also there is no one who actually ceased. Buddha then realised that what stopped udraka ramputta from cessation of perception that he attached to it. Buddha succeeded when he also got detached from this neither perception-nor non perception. And when done he realised 4th noble truth, the vision of Absolute and then back to perception. He realised, there is nothing in individual we can call own. Not body, feeling, perception, sensation nor counciousness. One who attach to it is seed for becoming and who have vision of 4th noblest truth, five khanda ceased to be. He do action but doer remain absent. He lives on until end but there is no one who is living. The conclusion can be put in example as: When a boy who is sweet but people call him ugly, with sadness in his heart by their treatment, goes to lake with distress, see his own face in clearer water and see his face. But after a while he jumped in joy that, I am not ugly, I am bright and sweet. This is like nirodha-sanna-sampatti. The face of boy in water can be termed as state of neither perception -nor non perception and the face of actual boy is that of nirodha sampatti or 4th noble truth or vision of absolute. So phala sampatti is attaining the fruit and niridha sampatti is frution. In 2nd example is like this": A student cried "master, master, open the door!" then Master says "The door is already opened, you are the one who is holding that!". The boy at the door is neither perception nor non perception. It's also called Maya or covering veil in Vedanta. A real fruit immortal is not sectarian and unfathomed is it's depth. So, wise accept any teaching or thought that is contain the fruit Immortal! Be transcendentalist. May all being attain it.

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