At which stage of enlightenment (or of meditation) will Dependent Origination break?

In my meditation practice, now there are no clinging to the thoughts and no self view. Can notice once it appears.

At this stage, is dependent origination still functioning?

3 Answers 3


You have to see impermanence, suffering and non-self with direct knowledge. Not by intellectual thinking. That realization should be all encompassing. In other words, you should attain absolute certainty that all condition realities come under the three characteristics. At this moment the mind should have the concentration level comparable to the first Jhana, even though it is not the first Samatha Jhana. Read more here


Yes puthujjanas claim that good mediation means not clinging to thoughts and lack of ''doer'', of ''agency'', of ''knower'' especially the intellectual puthujjanas who invented the dry insights. That's cute but it is not the discriminant between good and bad meditation.

As usual the discriminant between a successful ''meditation'' and a failure is about kama, sensuality, but philosophers always try to switch the topic towards thoughts and mental masturbation, and they never judge through kama and lack of kama, through Virāgā, and even less through knowing the conditions of what is conditioned.

SO at the very best your are like this bikkhu

"Having abandoned sensual desire for past sensual pleasures, lord, having done away with sensual desire for future sensual pleasures, and having thoroughly subdued perceptions of irritation with regard to internal & external events, I breathe in mindfully and breathe out mindfully."[1]

which is better than being a mindless, lustful puthujjana, but the vipassana are the next steps, which is as usual knowing the origin of whatever is conditioned, knowing what is conditioned and knowing the cessation of what is conditioned, typically the origin of lust, raga, the cessation of lust, Virāgā, relinquishment and so on. https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn54/sn54.006.than.html

so once you want the vipassanas, you first superficially calm the body, the citta and the mano, which just mean casually being relaxed, then you need as usual the joy to deeply calm whatever is still agitated, to switch between rupa and citta. Once the focus is on the citta, you can become sensitive to any sankhara left and as usual, the goal is to calm these sankharas (with sati and wisdom of course) because sankharas are always bad, then as always joy, pleasure remain and right samadhi is established, and then to see how those sankaharas and 5 aggregates and dukkha arise and under what condition they are destroyed, to focus on dispassion, on fading away, on relinquishment, on cessation, on rejection.

Trying to get the vipassanas without right samadhi is too difficult for most puthujjanas, since most puthujjanas are just too lustful, too mindless.

  • 2
    Good answer, would be even better if you could give your advice without making fun of 99.9% of humans by calling them "puthujjanas". Do you think your teaching will receive more attention if you constantly humiliate the students? I don't think so.
    – Andriy Volkov
    Nov 27, 2018 at 17:14
  • 1
    When I am going thru this answer I felt your anger you haven't let go and still disturb by your self view. Good night. Nov 27, 2018 at 17:58
  • For what my opinion's worth, I think I've become used to Veiculo's prose style and I didn't read this answer as being especially "angry", I thought it was primarily "descriptive" or "technical". You could try to soften the language by saying "some people" instead of "puthujjanas" (e.g. "Yes some people mistakenly say that etc.") -- and maybe stop objectifying people (e.g. say "which is better than being lustful" or "better than experiencing lust" instead of saying "better than being a mindless, lustful puthujjana"). But, yes, if the prose style stops people especially the OP from reading it...
    – ChrisW
    Nov 27, 2018 at 18:41

in my meditation practice now there Are No clinging to the thoughts and self view .

The self-view is clinging. Thoughts are (usually) clinging. To quote:

And what is clinging? These four are clingings: sensuality clinging, view clinging, precept & practice clinging, and doctrine of self clinging. This is called clinging

SN 12.2

When the mind has no thoughts, no clinging, no self-view, the Dependent Origination will be stopped. When ignorance ends, the Dependent Origination will be broken.

  • What is the different between mana and self view? Nov 27, 2018 at 11:42
  • DD, when the mind is empty of thoughts it is equated with genuine vipassana, where detachment occurs? Thx
    – Val
    Nov 27, 2018 at 12:08
  • Empty of thoughts is samadhi. However, the DO cycle will be (temporarily) stopped at the sankhara (2nd) link. Nov 27, 2018 at 12:27
  • I realised that .small amount of sankhara still forms . Nov 27, 2018 at 12:38

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