Has there been a recent monastic ruling amongst Dharmaguptaka monks in China & Hong Kong with regards to a policy of denying ordination to laymen who have lived homosexual lifestyles prior to cultivating the aspiration to go forth?

  • Let us not debate over whether or not homosexuality is "right" or "wrong" or whether or not this was a skillful jurisprudence. If we simply pool our resources to generate information, that will be enough. – Caoimhghin Nov 13 '18 at 21:45

I know that it is quite clear in theravada vinaya that homosexual men (not the same thing as straight men with homosexual experience) to ordain into sangha. If the sexual identity of such person is discovered after ordanation, he must be dismissed from the order. Compare to some other conditions whom the vinaya would not allow to ordain . if the teacher accidentally doing so without knowledge and later discover it, he would allow to stay in the order. (I can't remember for sure what conditions, it might have been those with certain diseases). Anyway, as a Buddhist, I believe Buddha did everything out of kindness to all of us. He would not block anyone's path to liberation. Tho he didn't say so, but maybe it is better for gay men to reach path of enlightenment when they are not staying with a group of men? Among the lists of inopportune beings who would not reach enlightenment in current life time, sexual orientation is not one of them (tho it might appear in later commentary, there was no record of Buddha himself saying that).
All and all, there is no record why Buudha did not allow gay men to ordain into Sangha, but whatever reasons were, I believe Buddha did so, like all things , out of kindness for all us .

  • According to the Pāli vinaya, pandakas of classes 1 & 2 ("the sprinkled one" & "the voyeur", asittakapandaka & ussuyapandaka) may ordain. This is in contrast to modern Thai jurisprudence, for instance, which bans all homosexuals. – Caoimhghin Nov 14 '18 at 6:11
  • I think that's from commentary or later additions. – Brody Nov 14 '18 at 10:13
  • This didn't answer the question, though: about whether there has been "a recent monastic ruling amongst Dharmaguptaka monks". – ChrisW Nov 14 '18 at 10:28
  • Your are right it does not directly answer the question but I was hoping my answer would build to it. My contribution was that the prohibiting gay men to ordain into sangha was originated from Buddha as far as we know, however, the details of the practice changes over time. Such as another comment above which was from later additions which created a loophole by catagorizing homosexuality into 4 groups which the later 2 are allowed to be ordained. I'm leaving the Dharmaguptaka out for those with more insight to answer. – Brody Nov 14 '18 at 15:24
  • Vinayapiṭake, Mahāvaggāṭṭhakathā, Mahākhandhakaṃ, Bodhikathā: "Tesu āsittapaṇḍakassa ca usūyapaṇḍakassa ca pabbajjā na vāritā, itaresaṃ tiṇṇaṃ vāritā." <-- English: "Of these, the sprinkled pandaka and the jealous pandaka are not prevented from going forth, while the remaining three are." (tipitaka.org/romn/cscd/vin02a2.att0.xml). The five paṇḍaka scheme is congruent in both sutta & vinaya, as well as the commentaries. The Pāli, Sarvāstivāda, Dharmaguptaka, & Mahīśāsaka are all in agreement here. The Sarvāstivāda reads "the sprinkled one" as "the one who is aroused while bathing". – Caoimhghin Nov 14 '18 at 15:35

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