1

I have seen this a few times in various places, although I haven't read it in any suttas, but I am guessing there might be some that talk about this.

2

The 4th jhāna brahma and above have a long enough age to meet more than 1 buddha, they are not going to hell until they die. So buddha can't say "If you do not enlighten by my teaching, you are going to hell soon".

However, most being are going to hell, included dead brahma, by Sutta. Saṃ. Ma. Āmakadhaññapeyyāle:

"In the same way, monks, few are the beings who, on passing away from the human realm, are reborn among human beings. Far more are the beings who, on passing away from the human realm, are reborn in the animal womb... in the domain of the hungry ghosts.

... "In the same way, monks, few are the beings who, on passing away from the human realm, are reborn among devas. Far more are the beings who, on passing away from the human realm, are reborn in hell... in the animal womb... in the domain of the hungry ghosts.

... "In the same way, monks, few are the beings who, on passing away from the deva realm, are reborn among devas. Far more are the beings who, on passing away from the deva realm, are reborn in hell... in the animal womb... in the domain of the hungry ghosts.

... "In the same way, monks, few are the beings who, on passing away from the deva realm, are reborn among human beings. Far more are the beings who, on passing away from the deva realm, are reborn in hell... in the animal womb... in the domain of the hungry ghosts.

"Therefore your duty is the contemplation, 'This is stress... This is the origination of stress... This is the cessation of stress.' Your duty is the contemplation, 'This is the path of practice leading to the cessation of stress.'"

Hurry up.

  • Very good quote! These suttas also say "animals" (such as Angulimala) can realise the Four Noble Truths; such as in this video made in Thailand: youtube.com/watch?v=uNzrKAzxipY – Dhammadhatu Dec 12 '18 at 0:32
  • Why hurry up? The more you hurry, the more you crave. Seeing the four noble truths should happen in a moment. – Dhammadhatu Dec 12 '18 at 0:42
  • 1
    @Dhammadhatu the buddha said "When you’ve gained the human state, and the true teaching has been proclaimed, if you don’t seize the moment, it’ll pass you by." – Bonn Dec 12 '18 at 5:01
  • Another the buddha said that many people have to use more than a moment to practice: "Now, if anyone would develop these four frames of reference in this way for seven years, one of two fruits can be expected for him: either gnosis right here & now, or — if there be any remnant of clinging/sustenance — non-return." – Bonn Dec 12 '18 at 5:06
  • @Dhammadhatu So, why you try to lie us about the real tipitaka? Why Tipitaka say " more than a moment" but you say "in a moment". Why Buddha cheer us to practice hard, but you deny us to hurry to practice? Why you try to cut some part of Tipitaka off and distort it? – Bonn Dec 12 '18 at 5:10
1

What it says is there is assurance no hell for the stream entrants.

1

.. Perception of ideas is inconstant, changeable, alterable. One who has conviction & belief ... one who, after pondering with a modicum of discernment... one who knows and sees ...

There are/doing 3 kinds of people 👤👥 who by certain qualities are no more capable to fall into lower states 🐖👻👹, not only those having reached the path by seeing for themselves.

Entering - 👀 The Eye - Forms - ... - Properties - Aggregates

[Note: this gift is not thought for any commercial purpose, trade, stake and exchange for wordily gain as well not for inattentive people who just seek for entertainment]

1

I wouldn't say that everyone who hadn't reached the stream is destined for the hell realm. The determinants for one entering the hell realm lie in the mechanism of karma or the actions one performs.

One might find insight to the hell realm by discerning one's own changing psychological states throughout ones lifetime.

As for the hell realm beyond ones current physical form, I haven't a clue but if you can see it in situations of your current life and in others lives one can deduce that the karmic thought stream continues on through into another six sense doors. Likewise for good karma.

1

there is a famous sutta where an actor loved his idea that he is a good person, as usual with puthujjanas, they always build a view where entertainment is beneficial to people, where sensual pleasures, delight, enjoyment are skillful, whereas the buddha spend his time stating the opposite

"Worthless man, from whom have you understood that Dhamma taught by me in such a way? Worthless man, haven't I in many ways described obstructive acts? And when indulged in they are genuine obstructions. I have said that sensual pleasures are of little satisfaction, much stress, much despair, & greater drawbacks. I have compared sensual pleasures to a chain of bones: of much stress, much despair, & greater drawbacks. I have compared sensual pleasures to a lump of flesh... a grass torch... a pit of glowing embers... a dream... borrowed goods... the fruits of a tree... a butcher's ax and chopping block... swords and spears... a snake's head: of much stress, much despair, & greater drawbacks. But you, worthless man, through your own wrong grasp [of the Dhamma], have both misrepresented us as well as injuring yourself and accumulating much demerit for yourself, for that will lead to your long-term harm & suffering."[2] https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.022.than.html

then the buddha states

Now, there are two destinations for a person with wrong view, I tell you: either hell or the animal womb."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn42/sn42.002.than.html

Of course, puthujjanas can go to numerous higher realms before going to ''either hell or the animal womb'', like the puthujjanas who do only metta, https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an06/an06.037.than.html

But puthujjanas who practice metta, karuna, and so on after avoiding being intoxicated & heedless manage to stop rebirth in some higher realm. The Pratice of sense restrain plus the 4 metta, karuna , mudita, uppeka is the slowest path, since rebirth is not stopped ''in this very life'', but only in the next one.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an07/an07.049.than.html

as usual, wrong view springs from clinging to the five aggregates.

0

MN 117 says there is two sorts of right view: (i) Noble and (ii) ordinary.

In ordinary right view, those who follow the five precepts and ten wholesome actions will not be reborn in hell. For example:

As a result of being endowed with these ten courses of skillful action, [rebirth among] the devas is declared, [rebirth among] human beings is declared — that or any other good destination.

AN 10.176

But in Noble Right View, only those who realise the Four Noble Truths will not be reborn in hell.

… the sentient beings who die as humans and are reborn as humans are few, while those who die as humans and are reborn in hell are many …

Why is that?

It’s because they haven’t seen the four noble truths.

SN 56.102

The Buddha provided different teachings for different people. Per MN 117, the doctrine of "kamma & rebirth" is not for those seeking the Noble Path (of abandoning self-views) and is not a factor of the Noble Path. Its mostly for householders, as follows:

The ascetics and brahmans thus ministered to as the Zenith by a householder show their compassion towards him in six ways:

(i) they restrain him from evil, (ii) they persuade him to do good, (iii) they love him with a kind heart, (iv) they make him hear what he has not heard, (v) they clarify what he has already heard, (vi) they point out the path to a heavenly state.

DN 31

Your Answer

By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.