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To further refine the question: the falling away of saññā (perception), for instance, may leave behind a sense of wholeness, awe and wonder as there is no longer the conditioned interpretation of the world; there is no longer a tree, a cloud or a person in the sense of their words. All divisions thus cease to be and the tree, cloud and person (everything) are seen in their glorious enigmatic depth and wonder. Forms cannot merely be confined to single words - so I've learned!

In another instance, the absence of rūpa (forms) could produce a sense of emptiness or spaciousness where one is intensely conscious of the space around forms but also sees that this same space pervades the very nature of forms themselves. Note: I'm not referring to 'emptiness' in the fullest sense of the Buddhist interpretation but more just generally.

I believe the trick is to see through all aggregates to make the ultimate realisation.

  • I voted to close this because it does not appear to be a question but instead appears to be some kind of evangelistic preaching about Hindu, Christian, Islamic & New Age mystical states of monotheism and the beauty of God's or Brahma's creation. Thanks – Dhammadhatu Oct 4 '18 at 19:37
  • I guess that "universal" means "all people" -- and that "universal experiences" means, "what everyone experiences" -- not "all religions". It could also be "experience of the universe", with some emphasis on 'unity' (something to do with non-duality or non-self perhaps). – ChrisW Oct 4 '18 at 19:54
  • @Dhammadhatu - The Buddha had described instances relating to the experience of a sense of emptiness in the Cula-suññata Sutta. He attended to those senses correctly and encouraged monks to do the same. Being curious by way of questioning is one way to attend correctly. Thank you for you input. – user14148 Oct 4 '18 at 20:03
  • MN 121 certainly refers to "oneness" but never refers to "awe & wonder". Also, it does not refer to the ending of perception but rather to changing and refinement of perceptions. – Dhammadhatu Oct 4 '18 at 20:08
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The falling away of saññā (perception), for instance, does not leave behind a sense of wholeness because the falling away of saññā (perception) results in the state of unconsciousness. In Buddhism, this is called "saññāvedayitanirodha".

What has fallen away in the experience of "wholeness" referred to above is "thinking" (sankhara) and "themes" (nimitta) rather than "perception". In other words, the sense of "wholeness" is also a "theme" born from "perception". MN 18 says:

With contact as a requisite condition, there is feeling. What one feels, one perceives. What one perceives, one thinks about.

MN 18

As for the state of "awe & wonder", this is a delusion or beguilement in Buddhism. In Buddhism, when right seeing occurs of the five aggregates, the result is "disenchantment & dispassion" rather than "awe & wonder"; as follows:

Seeing thus, the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones grows disenchanted with form, disenchanted with feeling, disenchanted with perception, disenchanted with fabrications, disenchanted with consciousness. Disenchanted, he becomes dispassionate. Through dispassion, he is fully released.

SN 22.59

When all divisions thus cease to be, in Hinduism, this is called "Advaita" or the "One God".

  • I was referring to the absence of single aggregates as opposed to all of them at once. I wouldn't need to ask questions if the latter had occured. ;-) – user14148 Oct 4 '18 at 19:58
  • saññāvedayitanirodha is an arupa jhana state associated with cessation of perception and of feeling. – ChrisW Oct 4 '18 at 20:29
  • I have never read before that it is an arupa Jhana. Please quote Sutta. ThNks – Dhammadhatu Oct 4 '18 at 21:06
  • This dictionary says it's "sometimes considered as the 9th jhana". I guess AN 9.61 supports that (saying "going totally beyond the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception, enters and remains in the cessation of perception and feeling") -- or more famously so does DN 16. If those definitions aren't explicit I suppose it's mentioned in the Abhidhamma and Visuddhimagga too. – ChrisW Oct 4 '18 at 21:24
  • Anyway I wondered whether @Suchness meant something other than that -- e.g. "not grasping signs" or, I don't know what. But "leaving behind the sense" seems to me to imply "feeling". – ChrisW Oct 4 '18 at 21:40
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I'm not really sure if I understand your question correctly, but I'll give it a try.

My answer is based on personal experience, thus not necessarily useful for others. Which is already one of my answers: no. I wouldn't say that there are universal experiences associated with 'seeing through' the aggregates (whatever that may mean). It is possible that different persons will have the same experience, but it's not automatically always the case. Another thing I've noticed f.i., is that with different methods, objects and so on, the way the different stages of insights are experienced can differ. So, I would say it really depends on so many conditions that it's not logical to assume that there is such a thing as a universal experience.

Then the falling away of perception. Well, there are different sorts of perception. I've known partial nirodha's (falling away of one of the sense perceptions), full blown nirodha (full black out and arising again), no longer recognising myself in the mirror (which also falls under the heading of perception), having no perception of a body, breath, heartbeat and so on. So, what kind of perception are we talking about? In my case, the absence of rupa didn't come with a 'sense of emptiness or spaciousness', as you put it. This is what I mean with having the same thing happening and still experiencing it in a different way.

I'm not sure I'm making sense. Maybe it's not even an answer to your question, since I'm not sure I understood you correctly.

Still, hope it helps.

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in a sutta about planes of conciousness. it seems that some beings with unified in perception. Im not sure if it means same perception or shared perception.

Ānanda, there are seven planes of consciousness and two dimensions. What seven? There are sentient beings that are diverse in body and diverse in perception, such as human beings, some gods, and some beings in the underworld. This is the first plane of consciousness. There are sentient beings that are diverse in body and unified in perception, such as the gods reborn in Brahmā’s Group through the first absorption. .."

DN15

  • @ChrisW, i cant comment on ur comment in the other answer, please double check on "saññāvedayitanirodha is an arupa jhana." I am pretty sure that I read a sutta saying saññāvedayitanirodha isnt a bhava. All jhanna is a sunna but there is no sanna in cessation. It falls into a category of tying to define Nirvana when trying to define cessation. – Brody Oct 4 '18 at 20:38
  • Perhaps you could discuss that or post comments in this chat room if you wanted to. – ChrisW Oct 5 '18 at 10:23

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