I was thinking to read this big text because the chapter claims to be the teachings of Gautam Buddha while departure from the Earth. Before buying I wanted to be sure whether the text is authentic or not & actually contains last teachings of Gautam Buddha or not. Can anyone shed light on the authenticity of the text Mahāyāna Mahāparinirvāṇa Sūtra?
I have a somehow long text from a scholar in a (controversial) discussion, but in German - and would not attempt to translate it. Unfortunately I don't find a link using Google only (it sems from a buddhist forum but seemingly not been captured by Google). If you find someone being able to translate I'd put it on some webspace to be accessible. The main line in that comment is that it is of later creation date (than the assumed initial canonization on first council shortly after the death of the Buddha) and also has been subject to various alterations– Gottfried HelmsDec 25, 2017 at 14:12
@GottfriedHelms I have in PDF in English.– user10804Dec 25, 2017 at 14:42
what does it mean: "I have in PDF in english"? (forgive, I'm not native in english)– Gottfried HelmsDec 25, 2017 at 14:46
@GottfriedHelms I mean I have this sutta in English but not in hardcopy.– user10804Dec 25, 2017 at 14:48
Here, I've even a question based on the text. buddhism.stackexchange.com/questions/21126/…– user10804Dec 25, 2017 at 14:49
I cite here from my older discussion, where I copied&pasted from a website on the MPNS but which possibly does no more exist, didn't check it (but noticed such a remark in a more recent discussion found via google).
(my original compilation should be findable using google on the newsgroup de.soc.weltanschauung.buddhismus beginning at 10.apr.2007)
Historical Background (2)
There follows a fascinating, informative and thought-provoking
lecture (originally delivered at the University of London, SOAS, in
early spring 2006) by Buddhist scholar and translator, Stephen
Hodge, on the Tibetan version of the Mahaparinirvana Sutra. I here
hand over to Stephen!
It seems reasonable from the chronological data alone to deduce that
the MPNS was formed during the Úâtavâhana era. The Mahâmegha-sûtra,
which is a precursor to the MPNS itself, mentions a Úâtavâhana king
who was the “restorer of the lineage” and this must be none other
than Gautamîputra Úâtakarn.i (r106- 130 CE),
Virtually 90% of the remaining text of the MPNS involves this person
as the untiring interlocutor who by his questioning draws out of the
Buddha a wealth of teachings concerning the permanence of the
Buddha, the importance of preserving the authentic Vinaya, the need
to purge the San.gha of miscreant monks, the importance of upholding
and promulgating the MPNS, and most of all the tathâgata-garbha
doctrines. Is it possible that we are hearing the actual voice of a
historical individual , called Sarvasattva-priya-darúana by his
devoted followers, his words transformed into a sûtra format to
ensure the preservation and dissemination of his teachings ?
(...) help, who are excluded from this message of hope: a group of
people collectively known as the icchantikas - the “extremists”.
In the later strata of the text, the MPNS fulminates stridently
against these people, repeating statements like
“apart from icchantikas, the cause of enlightenment will become
present in everybody”
“even those who commit the downfalls or perpetrate the heinous deeds
and those who believe that the generation of the aspiration to
enlightenment to be unnecessary will be established in the cause of
enlightenment - apart from icchantikas who are like death”.
So who were these people that the MPNS calls “virulent serpents” ?
This question is succinctly answered thus - “any person, no matter
whether they are a monk, a nun, a lay-man or lay-woman, who rejects
this sûtra with abusive words, and does not even ask for forgiveness
afterwards, has entered the icchantika path . . . . Those who have
no concern about the
And make no mistake about this - the fate of the icchantikas is
indeed terrifying, for the sûtra says,
“the cause of enlightenment will not be and cannot possibly be
engendered in icchantikas”,
“they resemble burnt seeds because they have extinguished their
“the icchantika has no seed and there is no possibility of him
having any thought of confessing and begging for forgiveness”.
In other words, the MPNS is quite emphatic in its view that these
icchantikas will never awaken the potential of their
tathâgatagarbha, never achieve liberation and never become Buddhas
throughout all eternity.
There is one final twist to the story. As we have seen, the sad-
dharma and the bodhisattvas who uphold it were predicted to
disappear around 220CE, if our calculations are correct. It seems
likely that the MPNS was circulated as the final life- belt for the
sinking raft of the Dharma - those who had ears to hear had this
last opportunity to save themselves. But what then ? No more
authentic Dharma, no more true teachers and no hint here of future
Buddha-saviours to come in this corner of sam.sâra. In fact, there
is this chilling passage in the MPNS:
“Who do not see the goal ? It is the icchantikas who will not see
the goal, for they will not see the goal as long as cyclic existence
lasts. I have summarized and taught the significance of this, but
you should fear what is extremely fearful ! Supposing that all
beings in unison were to become fully awakened to supreme and
perfect enlightenment, then even if it were possible for the sinful
icchantikas to become fully awakened to supreme and perfect
enlightenment, they would not see the goal. In that manner, you, o
hero, should understand things !
“Whose goal does not end in failure ? The Tathâgata's goal does not
end in failure. When all beings who dwell in the cycle of existence
have become fully awakened to supreme and perfect enlightenment,
then the Tathâgata's goal will not have ended in failure and then,
having passed into parinirvân.a eternally, the Buddha will become
impermanent, like the flame of a lamp whose wick has been consumed.”
Hieran anschließend folgt die Einschätzung:
in this world - and eventually in the entire universe. Then, those
who by definition can never be liberated - the icchantikas - will be
left behind to wander lost life-time after lifetime for all
eternity. What a bleak scenario !
So it is very less likely to be the last teachings of Gautam Buddha?– user10804Dec 25, 2017 at 16:57
I also listen Osho almost daily and Read Krishnamurthy occasionally. Can you suggest me some good enlightening books? :)– user10804Dec 25, 2017 at 16:58
Tamas: I can't speak with authority here, just with common-sense. "Gigantism" - things like the orgiastic large numbers of Arhat & monks at the Parinirvana-event - if it is more than, say, 1000 or 2000 then in my private view result of some sick phantasy and nothing worth to think long about. In the Pali-canon the Buddha is painted as a normal human -who, of course, has achieved high, perhaps the highest, level of enlightnement, but still is a touchable human being,with consent and common sense. -- About Osho, Krishnamurty: I began with the same :) then went to Hakuin, finally Thich Nhat Hanh. Dec 25, 2017 at 17:48
A book which I value much is that "Cutting the spiritual materialism" although it seems to be somehow "too dry" to be a real "revelation" - anyway I rediscover many thoughts which I was thinking on and found them put in a well and modern way. I liked very very much Osho's books about the (Zen) patriarchs and later the simple but very usable books of Thich Nhat Hanh: "old path, white cloud (...)" and "the heart of the buddha's teaching" .From another approach: that of Sister Chan Khong "Learning true Love". But basically I reread very often the sutras in the Pali-canon online & offline... Dec 25, 2017 at 17:57
Thanx, will be looking forward to read those books. :)– user10804Dec 26, 2017 at 4:11