What is the difference between the 16 stage insight meditation vs. 10 stage insight meditation? What about 0 stages any teacher teach 0 nanas?

What is the basis for "nanas" is the suttas?

  • How is "0 stages" defined? The time before one achieves any insight? First meditation session? Please clarify.
    – user2424
    Sep 1, 2017 at 17:29
  • Hey Lanka :) -- I just mean teachers who don't use 10,16 or whatever number of insight stages. They might have other ways to progress insight, IDK.
    – Lowbrow
    Sep 1, 2017 at 19:02

3 Answers 3

  • Bhante Ñāṇadassana made a work about all/the ñāṇas as they are found in the skripts:

Wisdom and the seventy-three Kinds of mundane and supramundane Knowledge


The `Seventy Three Kinds of Knowledge' appear as a Summary or Table of Contents (màtikà) in the first Treatise on Knowledge (¥àõa-kathà) of the Canonical book Pañisambhidà-magga (translated by Bhikkhu ¥àõamoëi as The Path of Discrimination, PTS ed. 1982), and then explained in detail. Expounded by The Buddha in His discourses (suttas) to audiences according to their level of progress in the path to deliverance (and found now scattered throughout the Pàëi Canon1 ), these knowledges were, as it is traditionally accepted, compiled and grouped in their sequential order, dealt with under special headings and amplified (in the Pañisambhidà-magga) by The Buddha's chief disciple, Venerable Sàriputta, the one declared by Him foremost amongst His disciples that possess great wisdom (mahà-pa¤¤à: A i.23), and thus second in wisdom only to Himself. (SA ii.45)...

(Not put on accesstoinsight.eu, as htlm, for now, so letters are here not proper displayed, open work, but fine in the pdf)

  • An approach in teaching with pictures, in accordiance with the Visudhimagga can be found here:

Teaching Dhamma by pictures: Explanation of a Siamese Traditional Buddhist Manuscript

  • A current ongoing discussion "Suttas vs. (modern) Vipassana"- Discussion can be found here:

What are khanika, Upacara and Appana Samadhi?, on D&D

  • It might help @SarathW in his current research as well, over there.
    – user11235
    Oct 2, 2017 at 8:49
  • Thank you :) 73 nanas? Does this include certain special relative insights or knowledge?
    – Lowbrow
    Oct 3, 2017 at 1:59
  • What ever @UUU likes to see as special, it might be needed to sacrify so times and simply read.
    – user11235
    Oct 3, 2017 at 6:22
  • Maybe I was just trying to be friendly. I think that you need to contemplate on your transgressions, not mine. That's kinda egotistical to hold oneself as an expert over other experts so I better cut it out. UUU has never understood one post Mr. Johann wrote because the grammar is alien to UUU. There, now I'm enlightened.
    – Lowbrow
    Oct 3, 2017 at 10:57
  • No problem @uuu and may he pardon that my person can not understand for him. What ever might be fine for him, is, like else, kindly given.
    – user11235
    Oct 3, 2017 at 11:12

There is technically no difference regarding the stages of insight meditation. If one work hard through insight meditation, he/she has to pass through all these stages no matter which methods is. Only thing is maybe so fast that no time to notice the changes. If one really wish to see, they will see it. What matter most is to achieve nibanna. Just to know "seeing the come and go of nama and rupa, no more wish for that come and go, and finally no more come and go" is enough. Sometimes higher nana stages are faster and more subtle. Sometimes just like suddenly pulling out the four delicate cotton strings covered under pile of sand, is so short in a matter of time as an example of Venerable Ananda. So please focus on meditation, dhamma show it by itself. No dispute.

  • Does the 10 stage system skip stages that the 16 stage system has or are some of the 10 stages representing more than 1 stage of the 16 stage system? So certain question mean I don't focus on meditation? We're you meditating when you answered this?
    – Lowbrow
    Sep 2, 2017 at 14:55
  • The 10 stage cover the 16 stages. Actually no skipping. If one cannot know all 16 stages is not because one is not focusing, but because closely guided meditation master has sometimes no chance to explain detail as the yogi cannot narrate the changes exactly. Also some yogi will have more distinct nana stage compared with other, e.g Bhaya nana according to his/her karma. The same applies to Adinava and Nibbida nana some yogi will not have clear experience as if skipping those stages but actually not.
    – user10293
    Sep 3, 2017 at 5:33

There is nothing conflict between this 3 canons. There is just the regroup the ñāṇa for easier to teach, not for debate. They have the same view and describing the same contents but difference grouping of ñāṇa. The content of each ñāṇa still being the same to paṭīsambhidāmagga and the other tipitaka conon.

Suttanta-pitaka Paṭisambhidāmagga is the conclusion of tipitaka for every type of practitioners to enlighten nibbāna follow to their enlightening type inspirations such as sukkhavipassaka, chaḷabhiññā, sammāsambuddha, etc. Every ariya must has 4 paṭisambhidā (cause-discrimination, effect-discrimination, language-discrimination, sagacity-discrimination) on their enlightened vipassanā-object.

In paṭisambhidāmagga 73 ñāṇā, there are 14 first ñāṇa, that are arranged by wisdom-praction-sequence. Also, these 14 steps are grouped by 7 successful purification of ñāṇa (7 visuddhi) in rathavinītasutta, too.

Path of purification (visuddhimagga) was arranged index sequence by 7 visuddhi in rathavinītasutta and 14 ñāṇa in paṭisambhidāmagga, together. So there are 18 ñāṇā appear in this canon (except sutamayañāṇa, because the student must recite & memorize 14 ñāṇā of paṭisambhidāmagga, while he studying visuddhimagga). The last 11 ñāṇā is putted in understanding section (wisdom for enlighten) and separate more part to 16 ñāṇa for easier to study. So, the vipassanā-teacher maybe often talk about this 16 ñāṇa.

Abhidhammathasaṇgaha is the conclusion of path of purification. But it was arranged index sequence by 5 khandha+1 nibbāna in 1st-6th chapter, their categorizing-name in 7th chapter, their relation (causes and effects)+ their imagination (paññatti) in 8th chapter, and their meditation in 9th chapter.

In the ninth chapter of Abhidhammathasaṇgaha called the middle 10 ñāṇa (except the first 2 ñāṇa and the last 3 ñāṇa) of 16 ñāṇa, in visuddhimagga-understanding-section, as 10 vipassanāñāṇa (10 ñāṇa that contemplating 5 aggregates by 3 characterizes contemplation). However, in paṭisambhidāmagga called vipassanā just for bhaṅgañāṇā because this ñāṇa has increased level to balavavipassanā-samādhi.

Thai version: http://www.84000.org/tipitaka/dic/d_item.php?i=345

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