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SuttaCentral's Pāli text of SN 48.17, “Tatiya­vitthā­ra­sutta” is,

“Pañcimāni, bhikkhave, indriyāni. Katamāni pañca? Saddhindriyaṃ … pe … paññindriyaṃ—imāni kho, bhikkhave, pañcindriyāni. Imesaṃ kho, bhikkhave, pañcannaṃ indriyānaṃ samattā paripūrattā arahaṃ hoti, tato mudutarehi antarā­pari­nib­bāyī hoti, tato mudutarehi sasaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī hoti, tato mudutarehi uddhaṃsoto hoti akaniṭṭhagāmī, tato mudutarehi sakadāgāmī hoti, tato mudutarehi sotāpanno hoti, tato mudutarehi dhammānusārī hoti, tato mudutarehi saddhānusārī hoti. Iti kho, bhikkhave, paripūraṃ paripūrakārī ārādheti, padesaṃ padesakārī ārādheti. ‘Avañjhāni tvevāhaṃ, bhikkhave, pañcindriyānī’ti vadāmī”ti.

In this Sutta:

  • What are asaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī and sasaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī ?
  • What is the meaning of vadāmī?
  • Do dhammānusārī and saddhānusārī mean Cula Sotapanna?
  • Is the maximum of seven lives applicable to Cula Sotapanna?

Thanks.

  • Where did you come accross this term "Cula Sotapanna"? or did you coin it? This is the first time that I heard of such. – Saptha Visuddhi Mar 30 '17 at 11:03
  • Please include an english translation – Dhammadhatu Mar 30 '17 at 19:29
  • I am sorry I do not have the English translation. I will include it if I find it. – SarathW Mar 30 '17 at 19:49
  • This thread says that Cula Sotapanna means "Lesser Sotapanna" and includes "truth followers" and "faith-followers". – ChrisW Mar 30 '17 at 22:19
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What are asaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī and sasaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī ?

In SN 46.3, Bhikkhu Bodhi translates these terms as:

  • 'Nibbāna without exertion'
  • 'Nibbāna with exertion'.

This translation appears inaccurate to me, since 'sankhara' here probably means 'thinking' rather than 'exertion' (although the practical meaning is the same).

The terms 'asaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī' & 'sasaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī' are described in AN 4.169, which states per the translation below:

Cattāromecattārome?, bhikkhave, puggalā santo saṃvijjamānā lokasmiṃ. Katame cattāro?

017.09. Bhikkhus, these four persons are evident in the world. What four?

Idha, bhikkhave, ekacco puggalo diṭṭheva dhamme sasaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī hoti. Idha pana, bhikkhave, ekacco puggalo kāyassa bhedā sasaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī hoti. Idha pana, bhikkhave, ekacco puggalo diṭṭheva dhamme asaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī hoti. Idha pana, bhikkhave, ekacco puggalo kāyassa bhedā asaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī hoti.

Here, bhikkhus, a certain person extinguishes here and now with substratum. A certain person extinguishes with substratum at death, a certain person extinguishes here and now without substratum. A certain person extinguishes without substratum at death,

Bhikkhus, which person extinguishes here and now with substratum?

Kathañca, bhikkhave, puggalo diṭṭheva dhamme sasaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī hoti? Idha, bhikkhave, bhikkhu asubhānupassī kāye viharati, āhāre paṭikūlasaññī, sabbaloke anabhi­rati­saññī, sabba­saṅ­khā­resu aniccānupassī. Maraṇasaññā kho panassa ajjhattaṃ sūpaṭṭhitā hoti. So imāni pañca sekhabalāni upanissāya viharati— saddhābalaṃ, hiribalaṃ, ottappabalaṃ, vīriyabalaṃ, paññābalaṃ. Tassimāni pañcindriyāni adhimattāni pātubhavanti—saddhindriyaṃ, vīriyindriyaṃ, satindriyaṃ, samādhindriyaṃ, paññindriyaṃ. So imesaṃ pañcannaṃ indriyānaṃ adhimattattā diṭṭheva dhamme sasaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī hoti. Evaṃ kho, bhikkhave, puggalo diṭṭheva dhamme sasaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī hoti.

Here, bhikkhus, the bhikkhu abides reflecting loathsomeness in the body, loathsomeness in food, detachment from all the world, seeing impermanence in all determinations and the perception of death is thoroughly established in him. He abides relying on these five powers of a trainer- Such as the powers of faith, shame remorse, effort and wisdom. The five faculties of faith, effort, mindfulness, concentration and wisdom are sharp in him as a result he extinguishes here and now with substratum.

Bhikkhus, which person extinguishes with substratum after death?

Here, bhikkhus, the bhikkhu abides reflecting loathsomeness in the body, loathsomeness in food, detachment from all the world, seeing impermanence in all determinations and the perception of death is thoroughly established in him. He abides relying on these five powers of a trainer- Such as the powers of faith, shame remorse, effort and wisdom. The five faculties of faith, effort, mindfulness, concentration and wisdom are blunt in him as a result he extinguishes with substratum after death.

Bhikkhus, which person extinguishes here and now without substratum?

Here, bhikkhus, the bhikkhu secluded from sensual thoughts, angry thoughts, hurting thoughts and evil thoughts ... re ... and abides in the first higher state of mind. Overcoming thoughts and thought processes ... re ... abides in the second higher state of mind. Developing equanimity to joy and detachment ... re ... experiences pleasantness with the body too and abides in the third higher state of mind. To this the noble ones say abiding in pleasantness with equanimity. Dispelling pleasantness and unpleasantness and earlier having dispelled pleasure and displeasure, purifying mindfulness, so that unpleasantness or pleasantness does not enter the mind, he abides in the fourth higher state of mind. He abides relying on these five powers of a trainer- Such as the powers of faith, shame remorse, effort and wisdom. The five faculties of faith, effort, mindfulness, concentration and wisdom are sharp in him as a result he extinguishes without substratum here and now.

Bhikkhus, which person extinguishes without substratum after death?

Here, bhikkhus, the bhikkhu secluded from sensual thoughts, angry thoughts, hurting thoughts and evil thoughts ... re ... and abides in the first higher state of mind. Overcoming thoughts and thought processes ... re ... abides in the second higher state of mind. Developing equanimity to joy and detachment ... re ... experiences pleasantness with the body too and abides in the third higher state of mind. To this the noble ones say abiding in pleasantness with equanimity. Dispelling pleasantness and unpleasantness and earlier having dispelled pleasure and displeasure, purifying mindfulness, so that unpleasantness or pleasantness does not enter the mind, he abides in the fourth higher state of mind. He abides relying on these five powers of a trainer- Such as the powers of faith, shame remorse, effort and wisdom. The five faculties of faith, effort, mindfulness, concentration and wisdom are blunt in him as a result he extinguishes without substratum after death.

Bhikkhus, these four persons are evident in the world.

The sutta is unambiguous. 'Asaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī' appears to mean 'extinguishing without using the sankhara aggregate', namely, the development of jhana, which is the stilling of thought. 'Sasaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī' appears to mean 'extinguishing with using the sankhara aggregate', namely, the development of wisdom or right view.



What is the meaning of vadāmī?

'Vadami' simply means 'speak' or 'I say' (it seems).



Do dhammānusārī and saddhānusārī mean Cula Sotapanna?

Dhamma-follower & faith-follower appear to not be sotapanna (stream-enterer) but headed for sotappana (stream-entry).

Bhikkhus, the Dhamma well proclaimed by me thus is clear…free of patchwork. In the Dhamma well proclaimed by me thus, which is clear…free of patchwork, those bhikkhus who are Dhamma-followers or faith-followers are all headed for enlightenment. MN 22



Is the maximum of seven lives applicable to Cula Sotapanna?

No. The suttas do not mention "seven more lives". The suttas only mention: "seven more", which obviously means "seven more fetters to breakthrough", as indicted by SN 13.1:

In the same way, monks, for a disciple of the noble ones who is consummate in view, an individual who has broken through [to stream-entry], the suffering & stress that is totally ended & extinguished is far greater. That which remains in the state of having at most seven remaining [fetters] is next to nothing: it's not a hundredth, a thousandth, a one hundred-thousandth, when compared with the previous mass of suffering. That's how great the benefit is of breaking through to the Dhamma, monks. That's how great the benefit is of obtaining the Dhamma eye."

  • Can someone who can read pali looking to the following Sutta for my fourth question. suttacentral.net/pi/sn48.24 – SarathW Mar 30 '17 at 20:02
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    I have never come across a Sutta which mention seven lives means seven fetters. – SarathW Mar 30 '17 at 20:30
  • sn48.24 contains the word "sattak­khat­tu­paramo". The PTS dictionary says that this means (literally) "seven times at most" and interprets that to mean, "one who will not be reborn more than seven times" ... but Dhammadhatu has a different interpretation in his answer (consistent with his saying, elsewhere, that the suttas don't talk about rebirth), which is that this phrase is referring to seven remaining fetters. – ChrisW Mar 30 '17 at 22:14
  • Can you give me a Sutta where it says seven lives refer to seven fetters.Thanks. – SarathW Mar 30 '17 at 22:42
  • I'm saying that the Pali word sattak­khat­tu­paramo literally says "seven at most" or something like that. Now whether that refers to "lives" or "fetters" is apparently a matter of interpretation. Like you I've read "seven lives" (in translations) so I guess that's the common translation/interpretation; and hadn't previously heard Dhammadhatu's interpretation of it as "seven fetters". – ChrisW Mar 30 '17 at 22:53
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What are asaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī and sasaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī ?

sasaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī - 'one who reaches Nibbāna with exertion', is a name of one of the 5 kinds of Non-returners (anāgāmī).

asaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī - 'one who reaches Nibbāna with exertion', is a name of one of the 5 kinds of Non-returners (anāgāmī).

Do dhammānusārī and saddhānusārī mean Cula Sotapanna?

Yes

Is the maximum of seven lives applicable to Cula Sotapanna?

I do not think so. I think maximum of 7 lives is only applicable if you achieve Sotapanna.

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