Timeline for What's Buddhism view on choice, choicelesness and causality?
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
16 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| Oct 30, 2020 at 22:51 | comment | added | Andriy Volkov♦ | @thewhitecloud Your choice may be predetermined but you still have to make it. If you make a bad choice thinking things are predetermined, then you are a predetermined fool. And if you try your best and make a good choice then you are a predetermined wise man. Which one are you? | |
| Aug 1, 2020 at 15:33 | comment | added | The White Cloud | To clear my point, Siddhart Gotama was already destined and predicted to become the Buddha but after his enlightenment he as not sure should he teach or not after intervention from Brahma he made a choice to trach the dhamma. So did he had a choice? When it was already determind that he will be a Buddha. So his making a chouce to teach was merely an illusion. | |
| Aug 1, 2020 at 15:22 | comment | added | The White Cloud | Hi Andrei, nice answer, I just have a question here, you say'our choice-making is what objectively leads to our outcomes', what if it is already determined what choice you will make and that choice making is simply an illusion. I mean if there is no-self who or what is making the choice? | |
| Sep 19, 2015 at 19:04 | comment | added | Sam Reeve | I Basically agree with Andrei Volkov but would like to add that if you believe that everything is predetermined then you presume that you have no choice in how you react, it is therefore impossible to alter your own behaviour, if you believe that you have free will, then how you react today will in no way reflect on how you react tomorrow, it would therefore be impossible to alter your own behaviour. The teaching of the buddha is to divorce the mind from "mental politics", the view taking, defending positions or dwelling on ideas. The mind is the host which transcends the guests(eg intentions) | |
| Mar 9, 2015 at 22:29 | vote | accept | eric | ||
| Mar 9, 2015 at 22:28 | vote | accept | eric | ||
| Mar 9, 2015 at 22:29 | |||||
| Nov 3, 2014 at 18:38 | comment | added | eric | Besides the flaming, doesn't clinging imply a sense of control over reality? | |
| Oct 4, 2014 at 2:09 | comment | added | Andriy Volkov♦ | That's just one example of how by changing our frame of reference we can transcend seemingly indisputable logical constraints. Buddhism teaches us to juggle frames of reference freely. So a chain of reasoning applicable in one frame of reference may not be applicable in another. That's why I called your consideration "kindergarten" (childish), because it naively assumes a single frame of reference. Which is typical for younger people, but also happens with foolish adults. At the end of the day, "freedom" means freedom from any frame of reference, aka "learning to operate your mind". | |
| Oct 4, 2014 at 2:06 | comment | added | Andriy Volkov♦ | Yes, the way you rushed to dismiss a 2600 years old living philosophical tradition you know virtually nothing about as "essentially the same as the Calvinism", is nothing but childish. Your conclusion that deterministic universe is incompatible with freedom is based on your (implied) assumption that freedom means an agent capable of action independent of any cause. But Buddhism operates in a different frame of reference, phenomenological, rather than mechanistic. From phenomenological perspective, experience of freedom is freedom, because experience covers 100% of our ... er... experience :) | |
| Oct 4, 2014 at 1:48 | comment | added | yters | Right, if you don't want to care about logic and consistency, anything goes. But, if we are dealing with logic here, then what I say is correct. Of course, you can just insult me instead of responding to my point :) I guess us kindergarteners deal with logic and reason, and adults just deal in insults.... | |
| Sep 28, 2014 at 20:20 | history | edited | Andriy Volkov♦ | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Sep 28, 2014 at 18:41 | comment | added | Andriy Volkov♦ | But seriously, your consideration above is at kindergarten level, the level of objectified logic. You take your mental constructs and assume them to fully express the ontological. But in reality, "ontological" is infinitely multifaceted. Buddhism goes far beyond simplistic single-faceted metaphysics. As my Zen Master said, learn to operate your mind, instead of letting your mind operate you. | |
| Sep 28, 2014 at 18:27 | comment | added | Andriy Volkov♦ | If you choose to think so ;) | |
| Sep 28, 2014 at 18:17 | comment | added | yters | If your choices are metaphysically determined, there is no true freedom. The person who escapes the deterministic universe is merely being determined by a higher force which other people have not been lucky enough to receive. Essentially the same as the Calvinism tradition in Christianity. There is no true compatibilist position, compatibilism is an illusion. | |
| Sep 28, 2014 at 18:07 | history | edited | Andriy Volkov♦ | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Sep 28, 2014 at 17:12 | history | answered | Andriy Volkov♦ | CC BY-SA 3.0 |